Why not XMPP?
discuss.privacyguides.net
To be honest, I don’t quite understand why Matrix passes this hurdle and XMPP does not. Matrix is just as little designed for privacy as XMPP. Metadata is also generated, is also not E2EE (as far as I know) and is also distributed further by federation than in XMPP. The quality of the clients is also very differing. I also see the advantages of Matrix and use it myself, but I find it quite interesting how an extra category was recently created to keep Matrix in the recommendations, although it...

cross-posted from: https://sh.itjust.works/post/40286422

Is UX/UI and marketing really the reason XMPP lags behind Signal/Matrix/Telegram?

Matrix is going Freemium and WhatsApp is adding ads, which is sparking the annual “time to leave [app]” threads.

Users don’t care that much about privacy, but they do care about enshittification, so XMPP not being built for it shouldn’t be a problem.

Meanwhile, I’ve heard for years that XMPP has solved a lot of the problems that lead more popular apps to fail.

Is it really just a marketing/UX/UI problem?

If XMPP had a killer app with all the features that Signal/Whatsapp/Telegram has, would it have as many users?

If not, why does it keep getting out-adopted by new apps and protocols?

  • SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
    24·
    1 day ago

    Granted, it has been a couple years and it could be a bit better, but XMPP is a horrible, horrible protocol to work with. From the ground up.

    Matrix might be bloated nowadays, but that’s nothing to the horribleness of xmpp.

    source: I wrote the first xmpp/matrix bridge in 2015

      • SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
        4·
        16 hours ago

        I never really did very much with IRC on a protocol level. I just know that it’s ultra simple, and suffers similar problems as xmpp: it’s not really meant for multidevices with a shared backlog.

        I’m sure there are projects to enhance IRC with proper e2e encryption and chat sync, but you really want something that has modern usage in mind from the ground up. IRC and xmpp are just very 90s.

        note: it’s now been a couple years since I last took a deeper dive into xmpp and matrix, so things might have changed. But especially for xmpp, I can’t really see how without breaking compatibility. The protocol is just very… special in its own way

    • underline960@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
      4·
      23 hours ago

      I don’t usually hear this opinion.

      Most of the time, it’s about how XMPP has everything you need without the boat of a Matrix server.

      • mostlikelyaperson@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3·
        10 hours ago

        Conversely, I have seen this opinion expressed a few times. I can’t judge the accuracy but there seem to be more than a few people sharing it.

      • SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
        12·
        23 hours ago

        Eh, only if you squint reaaaaally hard

        In practice, you will run in constant compatibility problems. Let alone barely functional multi device support