• PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social
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    14 hours ago

    It’s all fucking bonkers. They are talking about loyalty pledges for universities, they are doing little pogrom dry runs on Chicago apartment blocks, they are building the concentration camps. And people are still out here wrangling about health care and tax benefits. I mean, it’s not wrong, we should care about those things, but the whole framing of what is happening in the media, and treating this shutdown as all of a sudden as a big crisis overshadowing the other stuff, is just nuts.

    This article to me got to the heart of it. Framing it as primarily a fight about health care plays into the Republicans getting away with more of the Hitler stuff, however it plays out.

    • taiyang@lemmy.world
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      12 hours ago

      I can tell it’s a Democrat strategy consultant making that framing decision and it’s just so… stupid. Yes, we’re ok with a shutdown, just as we were in March when Schumer et al decided to cave in out of fear for this exact situation, and now they’re getting a lose lose scenario because they can’t just say “governments on hold until the fascist stop fascisting” to at least use this shutdown to galvanize the left.

      We’re so cooked, ugh.

      • PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social
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        11 hours ago

        I’m not sure it is even the strategy consultants who are framing it that way. I feel like the Chuck Schumer / consultant framing is “we hate doing this shutdown because it makes us look bad.” Then there is the Bernie / AOC framing of “it’s really critical that we don’t kill 50,000 Americans a year by taking their health insurance away that is what we’re refusing to compromise on.” That’s better, the consultants would have been fine with caving and killing 50,000 Americans a year, they’ve done it before. Even better than that would be “Well we should be shutting down the government, because what the government is doing is attacking American citizens and in some cases killing them directly and building camps to house them by the thousands. And the Supreme Court just said Trump is king and doesn’t even have to honor any ‘deal’ that Congress works out about health care or anything else, so fuck it, government’s closed.” That framing is more where I’m at.

        • taiyang@lemmy.world
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          11 hours ago

          Most fucked part to me is it doesn’t even stop them; ICE is considered essential and therefore it gets to keep operating during a shutdown.

            • taiyang@lemmy.world
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              10 hours ago

              Good question. This is a case of me reading a headline to a paywall so I don’t know.

              Double checking, seems like they don’t but they do get back pay when it comes back just like everyone else. Would not be surprised if they’re more full of people willing to work for free than other sectors, though, as racist hate is a strong motivator.

              • rhombus@sh.itjust.works
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                36 minutes ago

                Would not be surprised if they’re more full of people willing to work for free than other sectors, though, as racist hate is a strong motivator.

                A strong motivator it may be, but it doesn’t pay the bills. I have a feeling a lot of the new recruits aren’t the most financially savvy bunch and won’t be able to sustain missing multiple paychecks. If the Democrats stick to their guns for a while we’ll probably see a lot of ICE agents going broke and quitting.

              • PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social
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                10 hours ago

                That honestly is huge to me. Why the fuck the Democrats are not saying that ICE is snatching random people off the streets of this country and they are planning on making sure they don’t get paid another paycheck until they stop doing that, and that’s the hill they want to die on, I have not a fucking clue in the world.

                • taiyang@lemmy.world
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                  9 hours ago

                  My guess is still internal polling suggests this is the most popular message with centrists and independent voters, or something to that effect. But I agree with you, it’s nuts that they still don’t get that messaging fails overall.

                  • anomnom@sh.itjust.works
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                    1 hour ago

                    The recent polls on immigration suggest otherwise, Americans overall don’t like this.

                    And it seems very unlikely that any of the ones who do like what’s happening, are potential Democrat votes.

                  • PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social
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                    9 hours ago

                    I feel like it is complacency poison, and habituation of what the important issues and messages are. It’s like, it can’t be that bad. They can’t just be killing people. And they can’t be planning what they are clearly planning.

            • SabinStargem@lemmy.today
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              8 hours ago

              ICE largely consists of bounty hunters. It is about $1,500 a head. Assuming you got rich asswipes like Elon funding the bounties, the ICE can keep doing their thing.

                • SabinStargem@lemmy.today
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                  8 hours ago

                  It has been mentioned in various spots on Blue Sky and so forth. Remember, ICE doesn’t have formalized uniforms nor training, nor do they offer ID, and their vehicles often lack registries. The odds of them being genuine officers of any kind is low.

    • WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world
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      13 hours ago

      Oligarch-controlled opposition, doing what they’ve been paid by the oligarchs to do, and told by the oligarchs lobbyists to do, to benefit the oligarchs authoritarian takeover.

      • PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social
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        13 hours ago

        Every time I come to lemmy.world, I always regret it lol

        If this were the explanation, they would surely be aware that they are talking themselves into potentially a concentration camp, or potentially “only” losing their job and career forever and becoming a bunch of Leon Trotskies. Your theory has a certain emotionally satisfying nihilism to it, but it doesn’t actually make sense for understanding the nature of the failures in our government (and ideally being able to react to them constructively in some fashion, in the future.)

        • Septimaeus@infosec.pub
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          1 hour ago

          Your theory has a certain emotionally-satisfying nihilism to it, but it doesn’t make sense

          Damn, I need to remember this phrasing. I might tweak it with fatalism instead of nihilism, but that’s a nice way of capturing much of the cynical defeatism occupying the most active users of this site.