So, I have a background in religious history and texts, I took five random contradictions and checked them out, just for fun. Every single one of those either, missed the context from neighboring passages, or missed the point completely. I’m not here to say that there are no contradictions in the Bible, but the work here is shoddy at best.
I have a background in having been raised by religious nutjobs, but I did the same and was very disappointed by how badly these get it wrong. I’d love a handy meme guide of actual contradictions that I can casually share, but this is not it.
Yeah, if I had more time, I’d do it. But even still, I think memes eliminate a large portion of the discussion and nuance that these contradictions require. It’s not as white or black, as I’ve seen folks make it out to be. I’m sorry you had a bumpy upbringing, in that regard. I did as well and went the complete opposite way. I delved into every religion and I love them all! Cheers!
I’d say I am still interested in the philosophy that underpins some religions, I simply reject all mythological supernaturalism. Having been raised by classic Stephen King religious villains, I absolutely reject the entire concept of organized, centralized religion, appeal to authority or deity, and mystical thinking of any kind.
That said, I am a big fan of Jesus’ teaching. I don’t buy the “magical faith healer” nonsense, but I absolutely agree with his teaching, which is deeply humanist. Most religions have a kernel of profound humanism at their center, but all of them have been co-opted by the rich and powerful and metastasized into weapons of oppression, control, and abuse.
That’s absolutely fair! And I totally get it, in all honesty. I have had lots of doubts throughout my life. I just ended up wanting to believe in a little magic 😊
I agree with your sentiment about the co-opting by the rich and powerful. It’s a shame how so many good teachings from all religious texts, get twisted into these gaudy things. They become unrecognizable to me. I try to see love and joy in everything I see, and that is just a bummer. Jesus was definitely a cool dude. He’s definitely on a list of religious figures I’d like to meet, along with Krishna.
Not to mention that the old and new testament are generally viewed as distinct collections of scripture where the new testament is meant to replace the old testament. Any contradictions between the two are easily dismissed as just that, new replacing old.
That’s not to say bigots won’t use the old testament to push their dogma’s though.
So, this is an interesting tidbit. Although they are two distinct collections, in the Christian mythos they are, generally, taken equally. Or at least, they are supposed to be. Different sects in the church have varying degrees of equality, so to speak. However, they are both part of the doctrine. To say that new replaces old is a sweeping generalization that cannot, and should not, be made, when discussing the Christian mythos.
Matthew 5:17-18 NRSVUE
[17] “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. [18] For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
You’re right, I used the term replace where scholars might use fulfil. I was told in many instances where old vs new contradictions come up, that the old testament was fulfilled and that the new testament took precedent in most cases of contradiction. So I shouldn’t have used the word replace. But my understanding hasn’t particularly changed. It may have been colored by the positions of Professors I had spoken to in the past. They tended to be from the Church of the Nazarene Universities.
In the book of Matthew, Judas goes to return the money that he got for turning in Jesus to the priests. They refuse to take the money back, so he throws it into the temple and walks away. He then goes out and hangs himself. The chief priest doesn’t feel that he can accept the money, so he uses it to buy a field with the “blood money” and it is called the field of blood, which is used to bury foreigners.
In the book of Acts, Judas uses the money he received to pay for a field for himself, and when he walks onto the land, his body bursts open and all of his blood and entrails fall into the field. And that’s how it became the field of blood.
The only way to try to marry these two together is to completely step outside of what the scripture says. That doesn’t stop people from trying, but there are two very separate accounts.
Edit; to clarify, I don’t mean literary contradiction like this thing says it’s ok to do X and this says X is forbidden. I was just pointing out stories with very different resolutions.
Haha, thanks for saying expertise! I would decline the compliment though. I minored in religious histories and actually was one credit away, but didn’t finish. Mostly because I was ready to be done with Electrical Engineering, my major. I regret that, now. So, in my humble opinion, the contradiction/discussion on whether G-d does evil is the most fascinating. Isaiah 45:7 depicts G-d as the creator of all, peace, chaos, light, and darkness. But multiple times, especially in the new testament which generally switches over to G-d being a god of mercy, depicts G-d as someone who does not do evil. Some theologians blame the council of Rome for the inaccuracies, but I think it’s more complicated than that, as the old testament is not without a merciful G-d.
I think it might come from that, and I do feel like there’s something missing in the canon. There’s honestly so many missing texts, that it’s a shame. But I think G-d is in a superposition, almost. He is all, at the same time. However, this is just my personal explanation that comes with my own personal biases. This is just the example that came to mind, because it’s one that can’t be brushed off. Looking into the definition of the Hebrew words for light, darkness, chaos, peace, leads to discussion as to the actual meaning behind it. Is it allegorical? Is it definitionally exact? Who knows!
But yeah, in a nutshell, that’s my favorite one and I like all the discussion by folks, much much smarter than me with Doctorates in the subject. I’m actually friends with a Doctor whose focus is on whether G-d does evil, so that might bias me again lol. But it really is so fascinating. As society, especially in the western Christian Church, G-d is thought of as this one dimensional character. But in reality, He is multidimensional, varied, and extremely complex. I hope this dump wasn’t too much. I highly recommend reading through some dissertations on any subject/contradictions you find, as it is incredibly complex and fascinating to read through.
So, that comes from a Jewish tradition where G-d’s name should never be destroyed. I’ve subscribed to that theology myself, because I like it. If you’d like more information on my religious beliefs, it could be easily summed up as, I believe G-d is in everything. The air, our pencils, our food. He is all encompassing. I believe there is great truths in all religious texts and to dismiss any, is of great detriment to one’s personal spiritual journey. So, yeah. When referencing G-d’s name, I do not write it. But that’s just my own personal journey, no need to get hot about it lol
Info dumps by nerdy folks who are passionate about stuff are my favorite!! ☺️☺️
That’s super interesting, thanks for explaining! And yeah that’s a pretty central contradiction, I can see how that’d drive a lot of theological debate/discussion. Even within the public consciousness it feels like you have the two versions of the christian god, the “turn the other cheek” and the wrathful god you must learn to fear.
I get not wanting to accept the compliment, there’s often a really big difference between a true expert within a field of study and someone with “expertise” in the more coloquial sense of someone having significantly more specialized knowledge than a layman. Regardless, you know a lot more than me or most other folks in this thread and I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge and perspective with us ☺️
Anytime! Like I said, it’s a passion/hobby of mine, so I like to delve into it. Religion is so fascinating and it’s cool how so many religions have emphasis on peace and love that gets distorted by humans. I’m saddened by some of the comments in the thread, as it’s a large indication of people who refuse to be curious and learn, and would rather stay ignorant. Cheers!
Every single one? But there are contradictions? And somehow they managed to avoid including the real contradictions?
Edit: retracted text from my comment: You know this because of an image with text too blurry to read?". I forgot the check the high res option. Original point remains.
I took a random sample. I chose five at random. Those samples were inaccurate. Therefore, I can conclude with certaintity, that the data set is mostly inaccurate. Which is not surprising given the large size of the set. When dealing with factual contridictions, you must examine the historical context, breadth of the text, and related text to the original in question. The Bible is not the only holy book in the Christian mythos.
When dealing with all of these as a whole, you do find some rather interesting contradictions. Some that are hotly debated today in the church. But it’s not nearly to the scale of what the graph depicts. I’m perfectly fine discussing inaccuracies, contradictions, similarities to other mythos. Frankly, I love it. But I don’t like graphs like this because they’re often riddled with inaccuracies and immediately shut down all the incredible discussion these mythos from these sacred texts that people have written over thousands of years and have cared, died, and fought over. It’s rather dismissive and haughty, and I don’t care for it; in a data based forum.
Edit: minor grammatical errors. Changed comma to period.
Thanks for the screenshot. I didn’t think to look for the high res option.
But that still leaves the issue of managing to check every single one, knowing they were dismissible and also knowing they missed the contradictions they know are there. What are the odds that this managed to avoid any that the commenter knows exist?
So, I have a background in religious history and texts, I took five random contradictions and checked them out, just for fun. Every single one of those either, missed the context from neighboring passages, or missed the point completely. I’m not here to say that there are no contradictions in the Bible, but the work here is shoddy at best.
I have a background in having been raised by religious nutjobs, but I did the same and was very disappointed by how badly these get it wrong. I’d love a handy meme guide of actual contradictions that I can casually share, but this is not it.
Yeah, if I had more time, I’d do it. But even still, I think memes eliminate a large portion of the discussion and nuance that these contradictions require. It’s not as white or black, as I’ve seen folks make it out to be. I’m sorry you had a bumpy upbringing, in that regard. I did as well and went the complete opposite way. I delved into every religion and I love them all! Cheers!
I’d say I am still interested in the philosophy that underpins some religions, I simply reject all mythological supernaturalism. Having been raised by classic Stephen King religious villains, I absolutely reject the entire concept of organized, centralized religion, appeal to authority or deity, and mystical thinking of any kind.
That said, I am a big fan of Jesus’ teaching. I don’t buy the “magical faith healer” nonsense, but I absolutely agree with his teaching, which is deeply humanist. Most religions have a kernel of profound humanism at their center, but all of them have been co-opted by the rich and powerful and metastasized into weapons of oppression, control, and abuse.
That’s absolutely fair! And I totally get it, in all honesty. I have had lots of doubts throughout my life. I just ended up wanting to believe in a little magic 😊
I agree with your sentiment about the co-opting by the rich and powerful. It’s a shame how so many good teachings from all religious texts, get twisted into these gaudy things. They become unrecognizable to me. I try to see love and joy in everything I see, and that is just a bummer. Jesus was definitely a cool dude. He’s definitely on a list of religious figures I’d like to meet, along with Krishna.
Not to mention that the old and new testament are generally viewed as distinct collections of scripture where the new testament is meant to replace the old testament. Any contradictions between the two are easily dismissed as just that, new replacing old.
That’s not to say bigots won’t use the old testament to push their dogma’s though.
So, this is an interesting tidbit. Although they are two distinct collections, in the Christian mythos they are, generally, taken equally. Or at least, they are supposed to be. Different sects in the church have varying degrees of equality, so to speak. However, they are both part of the doctrine. To say that new replaces old is a sweeping generalization that cannot, and should not, be made, when discussing the Christian mythos.
Matthew 5:17-18 NRSVUE [17] “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. [18] For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
Checks out. I’ll allow it.
You’re right, I used the term replace where scholars might use fulfil. I was told in many instances where old vs new contradictions come up, that the old testament was fulfilled and that the new testament took precedent in most cases of contradiction. So I shouldn’t have used the word replace. But my understanding hasn’t particularly changed. It may have been colored by the positions of Professors I had spoken to in the past. They tended to be from the Church of the Nazarene Universities.
Thanks for sharing your expertise with us!
Are there any major contradictions that come to mind off the top of your head?
Not an expert, but I love the field of blood
In the book of Matthew, Judas goes to return the money that he got for turning in Jesus to the priests. They refuse to take the money back, so he throws it into the temple and walks away. He then goes out and hangs himself. The chief priest doesn’t feel that he can accept the money, so he uses it to buy a field with the “blood money” and it is called the field of blood, which is used to bury foreigners.
In the book of Acts, Judas uses the money he received to pay for a field for himself, and when he walks onto the land, his body bursts open and all of his blood and entrails fall into the field. And that’s how it became the field of blood.
The only way to try to marry these two together is to completely step outside of what the scripture says. That doesn’t stop people from trying, but there are two very separate accounts.
Edit; to clarify, I don’t mean literary contradiction like this thing says it’s ok to do X and this says X is forbidden. I was just pointing out stories with very different resolutions.
Haha, thanks for saying expertise! I would decline the compliment though. I minored in religious histories and actually was one credit away, but didn’t finish. Mostly because I was ready to be done with Electrical Engineering, my major. I regret that, now. So, in my humble opinion, the contradiction/discussion on whether G-d does evil is the most fascinating. Isaiah 45:7 depicts G-d as the creator of all, peace, chaos, light, and darkness. But multiple times, especially in the new testament which generally switches over to G-d being a god of mercy, depicts G-d as someone who does not do evil. Some theologians blame the council of Rome for the inaccuracies, but I think it’s more complicated than that, as the old testament is not without a merciful G-d.
I think it might come from that, and I do feel like there’s something missing in the canon. There’s honestly so many missing texts, that it’s a shame. But I think G-d is in a superposition, almost. He is all, at the same time. However, this is just my personal explanation that comes with my own personal biases. This is just the example that came to mind, because it’s one that can’t be brushed off. Looking into the definition of the Hebrew words for light, darkness, chaos, peace, leads to discussion as to the actual meaning behind it. Is it allegorical? Is it definitionally exact? Who knows!
But yeah, in a nutshell, that’s my favorite one and I like all the discussion by folks, much much smarter than me with Doctorates in the subject. I’m actually friends with a Doctor whose focus is on whether G-d does evil, so that might bias me again lol. But it really is so fascinating. As society, especially in the western Christian Church, G-d is thought of as this one dimensional character. But in reality, He is multidimensional, varied, and extremely complex. I hope this dump wasn’t too much. I highly recommend reading through some dissertations on any subject/contradictions you find, as it is incredibly complex and fascinating to read through.
You can say god on the internet, the fuck?
He can say whatever he wants, including G-d, this is the fediverse, we accept diversity
So, that comes from a Jewish tradition where G-d’s name should never be destroyed. I’ve subscribed to that theology myself, because I like it. If you’d like more information on my religious beliefs, it could be easily summed up as, I believe G-d is in everything. The air, our pencils, our food. He is all encompassing. I believe there is great truths in all religious texts and to dismiss any, is of great detriment to one’s personal spiritual journey. So, yeah. When referencing G-d’s name, I do not write it. But that’s just my own personal journey, no need to get hot about it lol
Info dumps by nerdy folks who are passionate about stuff are my favorite!! ☺️☺️
That’s super interesting, thanks for explaining! And yeah that’s a pretty central contradiction, I can see how that’d drive a lot of theological debate/discussion. Even within the public consciousness it feels like you have the two versions of the christian god, the “turn the other cheek” and the wrathful god you must learn to fear.
I get not wanting to accept the compliment, there’s often a really big difference between a true expert within a field of study and someone with “expertise” in the more coloquial sense of someone having significantly more specialized knowledge than a layman. Regardless, you know a lot more than me or most other folks in this thread and I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge and perspective with us ☺️
Anytime! Like I said, it’s a passion/hobby of mine, so I like to delve into it. Religion is so fascinating and it’s cool how so many religions have emphasis on peace and love that gets distorted by humans. I’m saddened by some of the comments in the thread, as it’s a large indication of people who refuse to be curious and learn, and would rather stay ignorant. Cheers!
Every single one? But there are contradictions? And somehow they managed to avoid including the real contradictions?
Edit: retracted text from my comment: You know this because of an image with text too blurry to read?". I forgot the check the high res option. Original point remains.
I took a random sample. I chose five at random. Those samples were inaccurate. Therefore, I can conclude with certaintity, that the data set is mostly inaccurate. Which is not surprising given the large size of the set. When dealing with factual contridictions, you must examine the historical context, breadth of the text, and related text to the original in question. The Bible is not the only holy book in the Christian mythos.
When dealing with all of these as a whole, you do find some rather interesting contradictions. Some that are hotly debated today in the church. But it’s not nearly to the scale of what the graph depicts. I’m perfectly fine discussing inaccuracies, contradictions, similarities to other mythos. Frankly, I love it. But I don’t like graphs like this because they’re often riddled with inaccuracies and immediately shut down all the incredible discussion these mythos from these sacred texts that people have written over thousands of years and have cared, died, and fought over. It’s rather dismissive and haughty, and I don’t care for it; in a data based forum.
Edit: minor grammatical errors. Changed comma to period.
Respectable response.
Why would you assume that the person saying they took 5 random contradictions would use “all of those” to refer to anything other than those 5?
Perfectly legible text for me. Voyager for iOS.
Edit: here a screenshot
Thanks for the screenshot. I didn’t think to look for the high res option.
But that still leaves the issue of managing to check every single one, knowing they were dismissible and also knowing they missed the contradictions they know are there. What are the odds that this managed to avoid any that the commenter knows exist?
He said he took five at random, and the “every single one” was in reference to those five.
As the other person said. They took five.
Also, I like to take positive intent and assume the best in people.