hi, so i recently discovered im more left wing (democratic) than right wing (republican), but im still not the most politically correct. earlier today we were discussing abortion and i said i felt bad for the women who the anti abortion people affect, but my friend corrected me and said i meant “people who get pregnant”, because men (like trans men but still men) can get pregnant. and not all women get pregnant so it doesnt affect them. she said it gently but i feel like an ass</3

  • DrivebyHaiku@lemmy.ca
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    7 days ago

    Hey, trans masc here,

    Love the sentiment but don’t feel like an ass. If you want to include us in the sentiment it does some great stuff! It signals to trans and non-binary people who might be in listening range but be closeted or suppressing their needs in the interest of “not making waves” that you are a safe person to be themselves around. A lot of people who “don’t know a non binary person” might not simply because the ones around them are in hiding because onboarding someone to our status is exhausting and sometimes risky so signaling that you’ve already done some the work is AMAZING.

    But that being said… Don’t feel guilty. This isn’t a game of right and wrong. “Political Correctness” is a tactic from the 90’s that really didn’t work because it was about policing. It was a cold politeness rather than a meaningful offering of solidarity or a chance to learn and there is a learning curve to allyship and thus a gratitude just for trying or considering a change. That you feel guilty is very sweet but you deserve to be comfortable and happy too. We as a community tend to celebrate people doing us a kindness, not begrudge people. Your friend showed you a spot where you could insert a moment of solidarity in the future if you wanted. That you immediately seem to want to is a rarer gift than you know.

    • jbrains@sh.itjust.works
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      7 days ago

      I really love this reply and especially how it promotes genuine decency rather than coerced decency. I know I’m not exactly adding to the discussion, but I really wanted to recognize how warm this reply felt to me with something more than a mere upvote.

      • DrivebyHaiku@lemmy.ca
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        6 days ago

        Thank you for this I do try my best to be warm!

        I have heard some folk fearmonger non-binary inclusion as some sort of theoretical pronoun police with some wild idea of disciplinary power. I know a lot of non-binary folk since we are pretty decent at identifying each other in the wild… and most of us don’t even introduce ourselves with our preferred pronouns if folk don’t make the space at a place we know we’re likely good because it’s still kind of awkward!

        We know we’re asking for a mental effort in helping us out so when it happens and people want to give us a boost it’s so magic. The amount of energy we reclaim by not having our bodies reflected back at us through words is noticeable and so appreciated. With any group of folks with needs self advocating all the time really isn’t tenable. We oftentimes just want to pick the path of least resistance even if it means putting up with stuff that’s bad for us.

        When people misgender someone by accident or say something in the moment that upon reflection wasn’t great they often are far too hard on themselves. Yeah it doesn’t feel great but you gotta step on some feet before you can dance and we’re just happy you’re dancing!

  • Xittstorm@aussie.zone
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    6 days ago

    Meh. The context of the conversation is abortion so you are defining women in the context as those that have a uterus.

    The problem is that sex and gender are differently defined but the words are shared. The response to anyone raising facetious arguments is simply “I am talking about sex while you are unhelpfully discussing gender - stop being an ass”

  • Zeusz13@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    In my oppinion it’s not the words that are the problem but the intent behind. You can say any phrase hurtfully if you want to. Especially in everyday speach you are also trying to speak with less and easily understandable words. It’s not a scientidfic paper, you don’t say Felis silvestris catus, you say cat.

    So nta.

    • Archr@lemmy.world
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      6 days ago

      This. Words are descriptive not prescriptive.

      As long as the person understood what you meant,which they almost certainly did as they corrected you, then the words that you used don’t really matter.

      Note, this doesn’t mean all words are inoffensive.

  • HatchetHaro@pawb.social
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    7 days ago

    first of all, you’re more than fine, and secondly, people should already understand what you mean when you say “women” in the context of abortion.

    the word “woman” has been used historically and socially to refer to uterus-owners, and we have unfortunately not found a good word to replace it since the word “woman” has now been repurposed for the gender role that those people play in society.

    it’s a super complex social and language issue that’s only recently been actively discussed, and no one is ever to blame for trying to catch up from the social norms they’ve grown up with.

    • apotheotic (she/her)@beehaw.org
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      6 days ago

      People absolutely understand what you mean, but using inclusive language is really important for supporting marginalized communities.

  • Zoldyck@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    You did nothing wrong. It’s fucking annoying when people ‘correct’ me for saying something super normal

    • comfy@lemmy.ml
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      6 days ago

      Yes. Although I also believe there are also good reasons to continue to change norms. Plenty of normal things of the past are now understood as offensive or insensitive today, language included. So I understand why people try and ‘correct’ language, but when it’s done tactlessly or unnecessarily, it’s just annoying and rude.

  • hoshikarakitaridia@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    You are not.

    To me this sounds like one of these things where some of us lefties can get into the weeds of “perfect” language.

    Sure, if you are talking to someone like that and using the wrong words, then that could be kind of shitty but even then if people care about you they will give you grace and just hope you will get it right at some point.

    You don’t have to say the right words every time, but when it’s important, you should make an effort to try.

    It feels a bit over the top of you’re not directly talking to someone affected. But maybe that’s a me thing.

    TL;DR no. You’re good. Don’t take these comments personally but also don’t completely ignore them.

  • frank@sopuli.xyz
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    7 days ago

    I don’t think you’re a bad person, because you’re questioning this.

    I will say, it’s weird that I’ve seen you and 1 other recent account that has a similar story, both of which are new and posting a lot about Russia. If you’re legit, I hope you can learn about your heritage and also unilaterally denounce what Russia/Putin is doing to Ukraine.

  • pheonixdown@sh.itjust.works
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    7 days ago

    I’m going to flip this a bit, do you only feel bad for just the “people who get pregnant who the anti abortion people affect”? Or do you actually feel bad for all the “people who the anti abortion people affect”, like doctors, those trying to use IVF, widowers or even the unwanted children, for example?

    Rather than trying to use a more accurately specific term, I think using a more general term is likely easier and is probably more accurate.

  • ThirdConsul@lemmy.ml
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    6 days ago

    but my friend corrected me and said i meant “people who get pregnant”, because men (like trans men but still men) can get pregnant

    I think the correct response is to ask that friend why are they trying to pivot the discussion from women abortion. Was she trying to rail you up? Discourage your argument or position by implying you’re not good enough?

    Honestly, she sounds like she preemptively gets offended on other people behalf, or like someone who weaponizes “being more PC than you”.

    Or she knows a pregnant man (I think the stats were about 100 a year get pregnant, most of them immediately go to a clinic) personally and decided it’s the perfect time to use that fact to win the discussion? Or virtue signaling? I mean I’m assuming something is wrong with her, because that situation is random and unexpected.

  • -☆-@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    7 days ago

    First of all, I’m proud of you for being the kind of person who is self-critical enough to ask questions like this. Things like ‘Do I speak hurtfully?’ And ‘Am I acting with privilege?’ Are hard to seriously ask, because they challenge our entire life structure to some extent, and might even require us to undertake the perilous and difficult task of manually adjusting our beliefs.

    Then, to address what you actually asked, I think a general term is in your favor, if it’s true. Would you rather communicate that you feel for everyone undergoing an experience, or just most of them? It’s an easy thing to forget, that non women can become pregnant, and I doubt anyone blames you for misspeaking. That’s not an asshole thing to do. Nor is it an asshole move for someone to correct you. That’s just the dialectic of culture functioning properly and healthily. It’s unfortunate that we’re trained to associate self-change as a negative thing, because we should be questioning ours and other’s beliefs constantly, imo