Strikes are very powerful. One key rule: never announce in advance how long they will last or they will just wait you out!
In 1920, during the “Kapp Putsch”, 12 million workers went on strike and the coup collapsed in about 100 hours!
I love the energy but not shopping for one day does nothing.
People are just going to delay their purchases. Better would be to cut all unnecessary purchases, or to be selective about where you shop. Having lower than average numbers one day and higher than average numbers the next is literally not even going to move the needle.
The work stoppage, on the other hand, is a little more promising.
Yeah this is why sociologists tell people not to bother with these. It’s slactivism, makes people feel good about themselves for participating but has no effect. So they likely think “Well, there’s my good deed.”
Just the same, a one-day national strike won’t accomplish anything, and will actually be worse because only 1% of people will actually do it, making it a joke if the media covers it. And organizers waste so much time and energy on it.
No you gotta go be visible or make a permanent change.
[citation needed]
Stop trying to discourage people from taking action.
Anything short of assembling an anti-fascist militia is a larp.
we’ll just not buy things for a day or two
piss in the wind, go buy a gun.
Which sociologists say “not to bother”? Is it 9 out of 10 of them, like in a toothpaste commercial?
And why do you think people who participate in these things only do it once and stop? Generally the people who participate in one thing are the same people who continue participating in more things. Movements rarely spring full-force into existence at once, they build as more people are affected and/or become aware. Awareness is definitely starting to grow as even oblivious parts of the county are now starting to hear stuff getting through their bubbles that doesn’t match the propaganda from their usual feeding trough.
TBH this post reads like a copy of the typical “your efforts are useless so don’t bother” propaganda that every. single. post advocating activism gets–there are at least 5 times as many posts lie this trying to dissuade people from taking action as posts advocating action. Gee I wonder whose interests that helps?
If you want to argue about what works best and encourage more effective activities, go ahead and do that instead of just complaining about people who are doing something instead of nothing.
They’re not saying that. They’re saying those efforts are useless so do something that actually matters. Like a general strike.
They literally said what I quoted and what I responded to: That sociologists say not to bother (who? which?) and that if people do one thing they think they’re done and stop (not at all in my experience).
Okay I got one for you. The No Kings protests amounted to absolutely nothing and things have only gotten worse. From my experience it sounds like the person you’re replying to is more correct.
Protesting isn’t effective until it is. Maybe it never will be or maybe the tide will turn or who knows what. We only know doing nothing accomplishes nothing. There are plenty of cases on video of people in Minneapolis preventing ICE from taking people when a crowd showed up yelling, recording, and blowing whistles, where ICE turned around and left. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn’t.
Now since you know so much about what doesn’t work, tell me what should people be doing and what you have done to help make whatever that is happen? I’m tired of every time people try to take action and there’s a post about it on here, you all come swarming out of the woodwork to repeat your same old talking points saying it’s useless and no one should bother. What is your agenda?
Either actually start doing something you think will be effective or shut up about it. Stop trying to dissuade the people who are actually doing something, whether you think they’re effective or not.
I quit my job and am advocating for a general strike. A method that will have an actual effect. I will also inform people about methods of protest that are ineffective because there’s too much on the line here to be so soft. Not everyone is as privileged, or they think fascism coming for them and their families will not be as harmful as lost labor.
Why do this just in Minnesota? Why not do a nationwide economic blackout this Friday January 23?
Because people in other areas aren’t being personally affected much (yet). And they think they can’t afford to lose pay or get fired; instead they’ll just lose their country.
It’s not so much that people aren’t affected. It’s that most don’t want to risk being the first mover. Firing 1 person for missing work is easy. Firing half your staff for ye same thing is a lot harder for businesses.
The plus side is that it’s akin to a supersaturated solution. Once a crystal does form, it can grow and spread rapidly.
Also most people are lazy and don’t give a shit.
People can’t stop using Twitter - the absolute smallest of inconveniences - to quit supporting a Nazi. Actually doing a real thing, with potential real consequences - is beyond what most Americans appear to be willing to do.
Lol, I’m sorry, you think we haven’t already lost our country?
It’s good to see optimists here on Lemmy.
Oh, and yeah, very few can afford to miss a day of work. I feel like people not from here don’t believe that… Maybe check your privilege.
Either way, soon you won’t have any jobs
People only act en masse when they are affected en masse. It’s very selfish and very foolish but it’s a symptom of a complete lack of group identity or group cohesion.
I’ll participate.
An economic blackout won’t hurt ice at all, it will only hurt the local businesses.
I’m very open to hear ideas that will directly be felt by ice agents though. Non violent ideas
It will scare the shit out of the oligarchs that are proping up Trump, the last thing they want to see is class solidarity.
Is the correct response to violence always nonviolence?
If so, that directly contradicts the fact that my grandad was considered a hero for enacting violence on fascists in Europe
I’ll purchase nothing on Friday in solidarity.
I wasn’t going to anyway, in fact I do all of my weekly shopping on Sunday morning. But, still.
(Do some people really find it any sort of hardship to not buy something one day a week?)
Yes. My wife is one of those people. I come home to packages on the porch every single day. Consumerism with excessive connectivity can lead to excessive spending
No, but businesses notice when line go down. Panic ensues when the public realizes hyper-consumerism is optional.
Love it when helping involves zero sacrifices.
fuck a day! do it for a week, a month!
Well, you pretty much continue until you get what your want. So the most effective thing to do is to strike indefinitely.
First thing Donnie’s civilly forfeit assets need to go towards is reparations to Minnesota.
One day won’t even slow ICE down. I bet their activities are already causing economic strain on the city now. Need to shut down until they leave.
Sooo, a strike?
Also they are saying don’t shop or go to school. So a strike plus other stuff, it looks like.
Cant use that word. Too communist or something. Idk.
I think the proper tactic is to stand by what we are. Bernie ran as a democratic socialist. He normalized the use of that term. By doing so he connected his supporters to a history of ideas, tactics and, thinkers. We need to normalize the idea of a general strike.
NGL, this was my first guess why they called it that.
The trick is, how do you make a statement federally without disrupting the state?
refuse to continue paying federal taxes
Cut federal taxes and wipe your ass with interstate commerce rules. Pretty sure shit would change pretty damned quick if all trade stopped moving out of California.
Oh, that’s easy. Stop doing what the feds tell you. No more federal taxes, and add in some nullification too. If other states like California, Illinois, and New York agree to help out of solidarity, threats of cut federal funding won’t hit as hard.
The problem is avoiding the difficult situation of Trump sending in some guys to shoot some people and imprison the survivors.
Americans are pathetic, they aren’t going to do a damn thing.
They couldn’t even be bothered to get off their ass to vote.
SHOPPING
how about shutting the whole fucking country down
Clog every street
Ruin every road
Remove every street sign
RUIN THE FASCIST MACHINES
AMERICA IS ALREADY DEAD, You can’t hurt it more than those in charge of it already are.
RESIST
How does negatively affecting businesses pressure Turmp and ICE?
A lot of Trump’s power comes from the support of the oligarchs. Shutting everything down hurts them, and shows class solidarity which scares the shit out of them.
A general strike is one of the only non-violent levers of power the people have.
It sucks. It probably won’t do anything. But I’ll take this over open war with ICE any day.
It’s easier to loot and destroy those businesses if they are empty because everyone is protesting?
Oof. Lost from r/conservative?
Bad joke
