Note that Germany wasn’t eliminated. In fact it’s as strong and as large as ever. It was just the government that changed. Yes - I think the right wing Israeli government should be kicked out, either by democracy or external pressure. But that won’t be the end of Israel.
That would be ideal. But how feasible is it to kill combatants without any civilian casualties?
Not to justify their actions in any way, but for the sake of honesty, the Israelis haven’t killed anywhere near that many.
Well written. And I do call for Israel to stop its wonton disregard for civilian safety and their embargo on aid - not that my voice means much. I do avoid the g word because it’s not well defined and I don’t think it’s useful. I agree that Hamas cannot be completely destroyed - but I think the Israeli perspective is that it can be meaningfully reduced so as to provide some period of peace (for Israelis). As unacceptable as it is, their response to the Oct attack will likely dissuade further such actions for a while.
Seems like the whole world is rushing to wwiii. Fucking cray cray
The point is that the U.S. defends its support of Israel as helping Israel defeat Hamas. That argument goes away if Hamas surrenders. No it might not stop the U.S. as the US government seems to be a bunch of loonies these days, but one might hope that it could trigger enough grass roots pressure to make a difference.
It’s in Hamas’ charter. It’s what they chant. I know you don’t want believe that narrative (me neither), but that doesn’t make it less so.
I’m not an Israeli or a Jew or affiliated to any degree except I have some Jewish friends - some who live or who have lived in Israel, just as I have some Palestinian friends. Palestinians that I’ve talked to who are out of the control of Hamas say that Hamas is pure evil. Such Palestinians don’t support the killing of civilians in Gaza any more that I do and they see Israel’s latest policies as abhorrent, as do I. Of course most of them got out of that area of the world when they had a chance because they recognize that there’s too many stubborn assholes on both sides that will never accept any feasible peace despite the incredible harm such a position does.
If it were my choice I’d have everyone lay down their arms immediately and work toward a long term peaceful solution which respect all parties and fairly shares the land. I’d do anything to bring peace and save Palestinian children. But back in the pragmatic world, I can see that Israel isn’t planning on stopping its actions as there’s no incentive (except morals, which don’t seem to matter to them). I dont understand why Hamas doesn’t surrender as continuing gives them nothing, and it enables the continued bloodshed of the civilians in Gaza. I think if global messaging focused more on calling for Hamas to surrender, we might actually get somewhere.
I agree. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people in Israel and around the world gave up on peace in our lifetimes after the Oct attacks.
That’s one of the things they asked for. They also demand the elimination of the state of Israel and vowed for there never to be peace until that happened.
Hamas surrendering probably wouldn’t immediately stop this war now as Isreal is so far down the psycho rabbit hole. But I would think (hope) that it would trigger a lot more pressure from within the U.S. to stop it.
Look back at this thread. I was responding with a clarification of how Hamas could meaningfully end the war. And you responded with an attack on Israel’s actions. You were not wrong, but it was a deflection of the cretic on Hamas. That is a form of supporting Hamas. I understand it was a knee jerk reaction to what you perceived as the same kind of deflection of a criticism of Israeli actions. But I definitively condemned Israels actions while also pointing out that Hamas is also keeping this going.
Yeah, it’s probably not great for Israel long term. But Hamas will never allow peace while Israel exists. Kinda fucked up all around.
And maybe Israel shouldn’t have funded the potable water systems in Gaza since they were used to make rockets. Things get fucked up in unpredictable ways. Hindsight is 20/20.
Sure. But that seems even less likely.
Certainly. But Hamas also has stated unequivocally that it will never allow peace while Israel exists. What can Isreal ever do to get peace?
I wish that were true.
Worse right now yes. But Hamas is purposefully keeping it going too, it’s a pretty close 2nd. Hamas ramped this thing up in the Oct attacks for nothing but for getting social media hits of Gaza civilians getting smoked by Israel’s garunteed response. Hamas purposely put Israel in a position where they’d need to respond brutally. It doesn’t excuse Israel’s actions now of course, but I think Hamas should share more of the responsibility than what posters here seem to realize.
Yes, indirectly. Whenever any blame is put on Hamas it gets a barrage of deflection attacking Israeli actions. Some people even outright support Hamas and cite Israel’s actions.
Weasel out of what? I’ve alsready condemned what Israel is doing. Just as I condemn what Hamas is doing. You?
IRA , Tamil Tigers, That Spanish basque group (eta?). Going further back, the weather underground in the U.S. it’s a mixed bag of negotiations and military/police defeat.