TestCaseInSpace

Which is a valid position to take. I never intended to change anyone’s mind on what the right path was in 2024. For better and very much for worse we’re all in the same leaky ass boat and it’s going to take serious and sustained cross popular activism to keep us all from drowning. Harris Stans, hard line progressive Puritans, hell I’ll take remorseful Trumpets because at this point it’s more important to be doing damage control and repairs than it is to litigate who was responsible for getting us into this mess. To be clear I’m not suggesting you or most others in this thread are attempting to relitigate that, but I’ve seen an infuriating tendency to dismiss potential allies because something is “their fault” rather than doing the work of building a strong coalition. I’m of the opinion the only successful long term strategy is grassroots, pushing for principled candidates from all backgrounds who will follow through on their stated goals. Our first goal must be to stop the bleeding, but to heal the damage we MUST put a stop to the duoparty ratchet effect which has been pushing the US to the right for decades, and the only way to do that is to primary Dems from the left. To provide real and actionable solutions to the crises facing the US, and in a really fucked up way Trump has given this movement a generational opportunity. These idiots have shit the bed so hard they’ve created an opportunity for a seismic change in policy, and a corresponding appetite with swing voters.

I hope when you say you have no sympathy for those folks you’re speaking facetiously. I understand how you feel, but it makes me very sad. Not that you in isolation are feeling this way but that such a position is understandable in the first place. This is a messed up time

Not in the abstract no, but I find the implication that someone who found Harris’s stance on Gaza to be a deal breaker is thusly responsible for empowering Trump to count for sure. As I detailed above I voted for her despite my misgivings, I felt it was practical and effective harm reduction under the circumstances and I stand by that decision, but I refuse to condemn someone who came to a different conclusion and I’m openly critical of those who do.

The Democrats need to stand for more than “we’re not Republicans”, and Harris muzzled a popular and progressive VP pick in favor of sprinting to the right to pick up some fabled middle voters. Then people act indignant that she lost the support of the left wing in the process.

I resent the implication which is often made, that by standing for one’s principles and refusing to support someone actively abetting a genocide one takes on responsibility for empowering the opponent, even if the opponent is objectively worse. And yeah Trump is worse, and by a lot it’s not even a fucking contest, including on Gaza but that still doesn’t make Harris or anyone else entitled to the votes of all Trump’s political opponents. If you’re selecting your candidate by who’s the least worse the result will be a race to the bottom and I’ve got all the respect in the world for those who put their foot down even though I chose a different response

It’s entirely fair to call me on that. To be more specific I had AOC in mind when I’d written this, particularly her decision to vote present when the Biden admin was forcing striking rail workers back to work. It’d kind of felt like a stab in the back at the time and still does but she’s shown herself to be a person of principle and character since then so whether it was a misstep or a tactical decision I was misunderstanding I’ve softened a lot since then where she’s concerned. She’s not perfect obviously, no one in politics is and I learned a long time ago to not let perfect be the enemy of good but that still doesn’t excuse enabling the status quo when other options exist. I think we’re in a real crisis and I was especially angry about that when this was written, I’d said it was important to organize and network within your community, to take real action to reduce harm and to drum up support for real justice when the time comes, only to be hit with “Why organize when so many ‘leftists’ wouldn’t even vote for Harris?” I’m paraphrasing as the comment has long since been deleted. This argument that we’re in this mess because others voted wrong or stuck to a purity test boils my blood because not only do I think it’s factually incorrect, it doesn’t do a damn thing to fix the very real problems we’re currently facing. I’m fed up with Schumer and the establishment Dems, and I’m even more fed up with progressives who wind up like Fetterman and compromise on their earlier principles but I recognize the need to work with less radical liberals because the alternative is pretty plainly fascism

Whatever you’re in to man, just pick a safe word first

I’m just going to copy an earlier reply I’ve made to this argument, since nothing has changed

"Speaking as a leftist who swallowed my pride and voted for a fascist genocide supporter because for all her useless platitudes Harris was still a better option and I’m willing to admit that; go fuck yourself.

You want to know why people didn’t get behind Harris? It’s because her boss ran on rolling back the damage Trump 1.0 had done and then continued operating concentration camps on the southern border. It’s because time and time again even the radical Democrats have proven themselves to be feckless, incompetent, hand-wringing cowards who can’t be trusted to do the job they were elected for until it’s time to “compromise with Republicans” by inflating the defense budget and passing tax cuts for the wealthy. Harris would have seen her approval numbers falter and start rounding up brown folks no different from Trump, the difference being she’d have kept her mouth shut about it and so would the media until six weeks before midterms. Her platform was a gun and a nightstick with a BLM sticker tacked onto it, no different from Biden or Obama.

Biden put ZERO pressure on Israel to reign in their genocide in Gaza and Harris would have done no differently source the United States has effectively unlimited leverage in this conflict and they refuse to use it no matter which side is in office. I voted for those lying crooks despite knowing that, but I don’t blame a goddamn person for whom that was a deal breaker, it should be.

You know how Harris would have been different, she’d have been competent. She wouldn’t have tanked the economy with these ridiculous tarrifs, cozied us up to Russia, threatened and alienated our closest allies and trading partners or surged DHS’s budget to unthinkable levels, but the next Republican in office sure would have. The courts are packed, the Dems will always have a defector (just like mean old Joe Manchin), there will always be a convenient excuse why they’re so feckless and ineffectual and all electing Harris would have done is delay the inevitable by another four years. Acting like the US’ slide into authoritarianism which has been ongoing since the Wilson administration is anything new or aberrant to our current era is either wishful thinking or complete brainless ignorance of history. Trump isn’t the problem, Trump voters aren’t even the problem, this is the result of deep rooted contradictions in the very foundation of the Republic bearing their poison fruit.

All is not lost, others are getting organized, demonstrating, protesting, taking action. The only thing that gets us out of this is solidarity and mutual support but by all means, sit on your ass and continue to point fingers at others you’d seek to blame, because they were wrong and that’s all that matters right?"

Try not to choke on that boot you’re licking