It’s a nightmare scenario for Microsoft. The headlining feature of its new Copilot+ PC initiative, which is supposed to drive millions of PC sales over the next couple of years, is under significant fire for being what many say is a major breach of privacy and security on Windows. That feature in question is Windows Recall, a new AI tool designed to remember everything you do on Windows. The feature that we never asked and never wanted it.
Microsoft, has done a lot to degrade the Windows user experience over the last few years. Everything from obtrusive advertisements to full-screen popups, ignoring app defaults, forcing a Microsoft Account, and more have eroded the trust relationship between Windows users and Microsoft.
It’s no surprise that users are already assuming that Microsoft will eventually end up collecting that data and using it to shape advertisements for you. That really would be a huge invasion of privacy, and people fully expect Microsoft to do it, and it’s those bad Windows practices that have led people to this conclusion.
Apple ensures its operating systems are clean, polished, and without bloat.
Except for all the uninstallable Apple bloat such as Apple Music, Apple TV, etc. And the numerous bugs and issues, such as still not being able to have the touch pad and mouse scroll wheel have different settings.
Apple is not blameless but they are a shit-ton better than Microsoft. I have to have M$ for a few work apps but I’m primarily MacOS for desktop and Linux for everything server-side. I avoid M$ as much as possible.
I agree. But everyone acts like Apple’s shit doesn’t stink.
Don’t forget the fact they’re locked onto luxury hardware, and you can’t build your own flavor for it. Even worse is, notebook manufacturers copied them so much there’s less variations among them. I was looking for some “subnotebook” as a potential portable PC, but I had like a few options (many of which would have included AliExpress junk), but there’s an endless supply of same-looking 14-16" ones, that are thin (“real” portability according to techbros), lightweight, “desktop replacements”, and run at a constant 95°C.
I remember when everyone was complaining about how terrible Safari is. The lead developer started having a go and ranting on Twitter, saying that raising bug reports is not constructive feedback.
That was a mess.
Do you have any links? Not that I don’t believe you, I just can’t find anything on it and it seems very entertaining
This feels like the kind of thing I would watch a 2 hour long youtube deep dive video on, haha
Yeah, the main takeaway here is “Apple Bad”
My dad is now pissed at both Microsoft and Adobe, and curious about Linux. If I can find a Lightroom alternative, he might actually switch.
Pfffttt, Microsoft has been there, done this, and got a whole closet full of tee shirts for stuff like this many times over the years. In the end the users don’t care and can’t stop it. And they are, by in large, too lazy to change to something else to completely avoid it.
It hasn’t ever affected the bottom line enough to matter to them. They will just pull this
bugfeature and wait for a better day. Or perhaps they will figure out a way to introduce it piecemeal to disguise it better.This is status quo for every large corporation. Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, EVERY SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORM, Roku… They all, ALL, push boundaries to see what they can get away with to not only sell you something, but also make you the thing they sell. Sometimes they’re bold enough to make it public what they’re doing, sometimes, it’s a leak that happens when people find out how little the company actually cares about it’s users (Apple, so many user data leaks).
I love it when Apple pushes advertising that touts their focus on privacy… when in reality, they’re breaching user privacy in all the ways that every other company does.
My bigger concern is that almost every company now has it in their contracts/terms of services, that all users are not allowed to participate in a lawsuit, be it class action, or court case against them Most of them even have a maximum sue limit too! There’s a lot that have a rule that initial arbitration cannot have a lawyer, but that won’t be enforced.
Is that a valid and enforceable clause though, even if i clicked “i agree”?
It should be illegal to include unenforceable clauses in any TOS or contract since it deceitfully implies it means something.
Should be, yes. I’m pretty sure it’s not in the US though. It’s pretty common here.
No.
I’m telling everyone I know it’s time to move to Linux, or worst case Mac.
I have down-voted this because in a worst case scenario, they should move to a less appealing version of Linux, like Arch
(waiting for my down-votes)
I’m telling everyone I know
Vegan, European, CrossFit, Linux, born again
Helping people to prevent their privacy from being completely screwed isn’t the same as feeling superior and smug about one’s choices, lifestyle, or where one lives. The sooner people understand the difference, the better.
But sure.
I also use Arch, btw…got any “witty” response to it?
I don’t know what this post means… but I want to learn.
Are you Vegan and moved to Europe and now do CrossFit?
That actually sounds like fun.
Especially the linux part.
Did you flee from a country that was awful and move to somewhere in Europe?
All I want from an Os is to launch my programs of choice and not suck up my battery running unnecessary junk I couldn’t care less about.
The worst part is that Windows can do that, but Microsoft insists on enshittifying it. Like Windows 11 isn’t that terrible if it wasn’t for all of the data collection and advertisements and other shit.
I miss the Windows 7 days where you could download a stripped down ISO that was just the OS. It launched your programs of choice and didn’t suck up your battery running unnecessary junk.
it isn’t a nightmare for them. they will be fine. they normalize everything they do
Yeah like I hate Microsoft, I am migrating to Linux, and the things I read about recall were pretty fucking horrifying to me. At the end of the day though the general public doesn’t give two shits about tech other than it works out of the box.
I use Arch since 2009 (BTW), but I think I’m planted in reality enough to know that the average user not only doesn’t care, hasn’t even heard about it. This will not even move the needle regarding usage.
Just think they might go from owning 98% of the market to 97% of the market. I am sure this is a nightmare for them.
Gradual shifts can snowball into huge shifts. a few years ago Linux gaming only existed for the dedicated crowd, that somehow managed to make it work. Now for many it is no different from their Windows experience for most games, sometimes even better.
Think of it like bubbles pressing against each other. It matters not only how much pressure your own bubble has, but also how much pressure the other bubbles have in finding the equilibrium. The Windows bubble isn’t only weakening itself, the Linux bubble is getting stronger and stronger
For me, gaming was the one thing holding me back from really adopting Linux. When I got a PS5, I felt the time was right to make the switch, but I’ve been pleasantly surprised to find pretty much my whole Steam library works fine on Linux. VR still doesn’t work for me, but it seems to be getting there.
There is still a lot of googling and frustration involved in using and maintaining it, but I’m slowly learning through exposure. There is nothing I want to do on a PC any more that I need windows for. If the auto update stuff worked better, I’d probably recommend it to everyone. But I’ve tried both Mint and Ubuntu and the software updater constantly runs into issues very quickly after install. I’m guessing because of all the different ways to install software, but I can’t understand why it doesn’t just apt update/upgrade behind the scenes because that seems to work just fine.
But I’ve tried both Mint and Ubuntu and the software updater constantly runs into issues very quickly after install.
I have a Blue-Build based custom distro (not many customisations tbh), that I’m planning to ship for my sister as well as me. So far, updates have been painless because it’s just one base image overwriting the other. I have a feeling that that’s where Linux distros in general is headed. I can imagine Bazzite being just right for you if you’re into gaming.
Primarily I use my Linux box for development, but I do like to game on the PC from time to time. And then also I like to connect to oculus for SteamVR. I haven’t been able to do that since I got off windows. Yeah, I could dual boot or whatever, but I just don’t want to.
I’ll look into Bazzite because maybe I can move my kids’ computer to Linux as well. They do nothing but game/discord on theirs.
Hey, if it makes some SVP not get their quarterly bonus then maybe we’ll see a marginal change for sex months! Maybe!
i assume you mean that sarcastically but that is a nightmare for them and every bit of lost marketshare makes it easier to lose more
I finally switched to Linux Mint a week ago. I’ve just had enough of Microsoft and I couldn’t think of any more reasons why I shouldn’t switch.
I’ve got Libre Office for all my productivity needs. All my Steam games work under Linux. My VPN works just fine. Firefox for web browsing. Thunderbird for email. And Wine to run those 1-2 Windows programs that I just can’t do without.
There’s no reason to run Windows unless there’s specific software that won’t run in a virtual highly contained environment of Windows within Linux.
Friends don’t let friends use windows.
You might try OnlyOffice 😄
Hey, I replace LibreOffice on my Linux installs every time with OnlyOffice. I don’t really need a full up office suite anymore. And I find OnlyOffice is a bit simpler and easier to use. But it’s not for everybody.
Plus, it keeps me away from trusting Google Docs…
vpn with network manager is amazing. All my client’s vpn solutions just work. On windows I needed 5-6 different vpn clients that bluescreen each other on Linux I need zero proprietary software.
I don’t want to be the guy that always says Linux, but… …Linux
It is okay to be the person that always recommends Linux, especially if you are a kind person with the patience to explain things to people in approachable terms (and you don’t just scream at people SOMEBODY ALREADY ASKED THIS QUESTION USE SEARCH whenever a newbie walks in the door and asks the obvious questions a newbie would ask).
Now is the time, Linux is pulled up out front waiting to pick us up (with bags packed) and Microsoft is loudly shitting the bed upstairs, NOW is the time to walk straight out the front door, jump in the car with Linux and never look back. We owe it to Microsoft’s long relationship with consumers to leave Microsoft sitting confused on the porcelain throne wondering why they were abandoned and where all the toilet paper is (we are the toilet paper in this metaphor).
SOMEBODY ALREADY ASKED THIS QUESTION USE SEARCH
I don’t understand this approach, if you don’t want to answer, just don’t answer. Why would you waste time writing that you won’t answer?
Yeah but there’s like 20 of them, and many are half-baked. How is a n00b to choose one?
Ubuntu is fine for all uses, and so are some of the others
Not sure about that. They try to get you to sign up for services, and they deliberately broke something with installing from certain file types.
It’s still perfectly functional and easy to use, just say no if they ask you to sign up to a service, if you come from windows you’ll ve surprised of how easy it is to dismiss those offers
HISTTIMEFORMAT="%d/%m/%y %T "
Then
history | grep -i “09/06/2024”
Outside of the “Microsoft bad” comments, this is a prime example of why big tech companies need to stop promoting AI leads to a position where they are able to have influence over initiatives outside of AI.
The worst thing to happen to basically every product/service in tech right now is AI. It’s made Google unreliable in the eyes of normal people for the first time in decades, it’s destroying trust in Amazon content across reviews and Kindle, it’s adding features to Facebook that no one ever wanted, etc.
And the annoying thing is, this tech can be exceptionally useful when it’s actually been implemented thoughtfully.
Effortlessly cleaning up audio recordings using AI tooling is incredible, for example. There are audio recordings that I’ve been able to make sound great that previously would’ve required me to make some calls and ask for a bunch of re-recordings and added days of delays to a project.
AI in image recognition to vastly speed up medical imaging diagnosis, or analysing lab work? Amazing. Asking unpaid medical students to laboriously pore over thousands of images sounds like a nightmare.
Better offline translation? Sign me the fuck up.
Image description for the visually impaired, like my sister? Genuinely life changing. A lot of content online isn’t properly tagged, or has zero attention placed on accessibility.
The list goes on. Unfortunately, with big tech being as they are, their first thoughts turn to “which implementations of AI will aid us the most in scraping userdata and showing ads?”
The list goes on. Unfortunately, with big tech being as they are, their first thoughts turn to “which implementations of AI will aid us the most in scraping userdata and showing ads?”
Don’t forget making sure the peons can squeeze out more productivity for the 1%.
Wait what has the Amazon done with kindle and ai ?
There have been several instances where people have released ebooks that are fully AI generated, and are basically scams with no real content or information.
TL;DR:
- Windows Recall, part of Microsoft’s new Copilot+ PC initiative, has sparked major privacy and security concerns.
- The feature uses AI to capture and store screen data locally, allowing users to search for past activities using natural language.
- Despite assurances that data is not uploaded to the cloud or used by Microsoft, user trust is lacking.
- Microsoft has a history of practices that have eroded user trust, including obtrusive ads, ignoring user preferences, and requiring Microsoft Accounts.
- Users are skeptical, fearing future misuse of the collected data for advertising or AI training.
- Windows Recall reportedly stores data unencrypted, making it vulnerable to access by third-party apps and potential malware.
- The open nature of Windows amplifies these risks, unlike more secure systems like iOS and Android.
- Users have compared Windows Recall to spyware, with many threatening to switch to other operating systems like Linux or Mac.
- Microsoft’s attempts to keep the development of Windows Recall secret did not help build trust.
- Windows Recall will only be available on new Copilot+ PCs, requiring specific hardware not present in existing PCs.
- Users will have the option to disable the feature, but there are concerns about it being enabled by default.
- Despite security issues, the feature is effective in helping users find lost or forgotten data.
- It could improve productivity if trust and security concerns are resolved.
Windows Recall does NOT require NPU hardware to run. Currently Recall has been tested on Windows 11 with only a CPU and it seems to be fully operational. Of course performance is not as good as with an NPU. I believe Microsoft will try to push AI to local computing by only enabling on computers with NPUs to begin with. In the future it will most likely be able to be enabled on PCs which does not have an NPU but with a warning of bad performance in front of it.
I know it’s WindowsCentral but the article has some pretty naive takes. Given the propensity of threat actors to target Windows due to its market share it’s impossible to not see a system that records user activity as a huge treasure trove for both malware and hackers.
It also doesn’t mention that Microsoft claimed that it would be impossible to exfiltrate Recall data and of course researchers found it not only possible but trivial, with the data lacking even basic protections. Assurances that there are mechanisms to prevent Recall from secretly monitoring you mean nothing when prior assurances about safety have been found to be paper thin at best.
Further it ignores that telemetry gathered by Windows has dramatically increased in the last several years with methods to disable it being eliminated or undone by OS updates. Microsoft is hungry for user data and it would be absurdly naive to think that Recall won’t be a tool they use to gain more of it. If not now, then definitely later.
The author does point out that Recall has been weirdly under wraps, avoiding the usual test bed for new feature rollout. Microsoft has been acting shady about the feature and then the feature itself does shady things (like record PII, credit card data, etc.), of course users are going to think the worst. At this point it’s a survival tactic.
Microsoft doesn’t have trust issues because of bad PR or a few missteps. Microsoft has trust issues because they have violated user trust repeatedly for decades. They have done nothing to make users feel like they care at all about keeping Windows secure and safe and they clearly have no regard for user privacy. This only question is whether this backlash will do anything to make Microsoft reconsider the way it treats its users. I predict they will learn all the wrong lessons from this.
and here i am, happy that i could buy a notebook for 200 bucks less w.o. a windows preinstalled on it, enjoying my beginner friendly linux distro.
just wondering, who’s offering discounts and what’d you end up with? Thanks!
Man, there is a LOT of people in this thread hoping to normalize this, or pretend it will happen anyway, or that it’s ‘not really a PR disaster’, or that people will ignore it, or-
Go make your money elsewhere, christ.
