Escalation to violence is exactly what they want. It gives them all the justification they need to invoke the Insurrection Act, declare martial law and suspend your Constitutional rights. And not just in California.
I didn’t say start blasting. Right wingers show up strapped all the time showing they mean business and are given plenty of space as a consequence. The cops can do the same for other Americans. If they can’t then it shows the public that it was never about individual rights and all about allowing one group they favor to get away with it.
Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass publicly urged protesters Monday not to give the Trump administration any pretext for what they’re already doing and will keep doing no matter what. “Angelenos—don’t engage in violence and give the administration an excuse to inflict all the damage they have been inflicting carte blanche for months on end,” said Bass, adding that Trump and his team are just looking for a reason to respond with violence, as they would have done whether or not any of this happened.
That’s an Onion article. You can tell because Trump hasn’t been shooting protesters for months already. That’s what comes next. And that’s when it stops being a protest, and turns into a civil war.
There’s a marginal difference. “Less lethal” rounds are still lethal when they’re fired directly at people, particularly if the wounded are denied medical attention and are subjected to further police violence after they’ve been injured.
All it takes is a single police officer to put on plain clothes and to throw a brick. They do that on the regular, let’s stop this “don’t do ANYTHING disruptive or could be considered violent! It will escalate!” Nonsense
So, by that logic, protesters should use violence? Is that what you’re saying? I mean, if the police are already going to frame them, then we should just give them what they want, and turn this into an all out massacre?
Man, you guys are trying so hard to start a civil war. it’s pretty transparent at this point, who you’re working for.
The expectation that nothing should happen is a fever dream. All your worry is for nothing, what happens will happen, and the only thing you can do is what you can do. If it comes to civil war, that was a decision made by those in power, and is seeming inevitable at this point.
Nothing you just said, even makes sense. Did that sound profound to you? Because it isn’t. Wishing for war, is an idiots “fever dream”.
“…what happens will happen”, is bullshit. We either make it happen or we don’t. Blaming the people in power for our actions is no different than them blaming us for theirs. The entire point is to not do exactly what they want us to, like sheep being led to slaughter.
If you’ve already decided that you want a civil war, then Trump doesn’t need to find an excuse. You’re going to force his hand. And any possibility that those soldiers might be on your side, disappears.
Where does the goal post moving stop? It’s not an escalation of violence if you don’t use it. It’s a threat to escalate to violence. If they aren’t afraid of you then they’re not going to change.
When they declare martial law are you going to be saying the same thing and hoping by just chanting loudly you change their mind?
Are you sure? It seems like the escalation is what they don’t want. And that’s why they’re having to call in the marines to try and scare people back into submission.
Passive acquiescence and blind obedience is what they want. That’s why the news media is so eager to label these protests as abnormal, intolerable, and anti-American. If the conservatives wanted protests, they wouldn’t be so eager to censor the protests’ advocates and so worried about valorizing these opposition efforts.
So what? Do you just watch until you’re being herded into concentration camps anyway? This is the first instance of effective resistance to Trump (the April parades don’t count) since January and they’re calling in the Marines already. This was simply never going to end peacefully, because any effective act of mass resistance was going to be suppressed violently; avoiding escalation means avoiding resistance.
Edit: This person is not arguing in good faith. I cornered them in this thread and they claimed that ICE won’t shoot people unless provoked and then that they’re shooting people to provoke an escalation. Their argument seems to hinge on the idea that rubber bullets are harmless pranks you should just suck up.
Resistance doesn’t have to include escalation. Leave that to them…they are going to escalate anyway. If the protesters are the ones doing it, then they just handed Trump exactly what he wants…a legal justification for his actions.
Neither Trump nor his followers give a flying fuck about legal justifications, and any so-called moderate who cares about that is a fascist in denial. Solidarity is indispensible when fighting tyranny, and solidarity demands that when members of your community are being kidnapped by the Gestapo you fight back, not watch and cry about legal justifications.
How does getting your neighbors killed, “protect” them? Those people are already doing enough to protect their neighbors right now. How would starting an all-out civil war, protect anyone?
Those people are already doing enough to protect their neighbors right now.
My point is that continuing that is the escalation you’re talking about. Consider the following situation: ICE comes for person X and group Y shows up. Y refuse to hand over X, at which point ICE threatens to shoot them if they don’t comply. What should Y do here? Hand over X? Peacefully get shot? Shoot back?
If ICE shows up for person X, and group Y stands in front of them…ICE is not going to start shooting people unless they are threatened with violence. If the entire neighborhood comes out onto the streets in enough numbers, and simply stands their ground…ICE will have no choice but to either leave, or break the law.
But, if you step up to them with violent intent…then all bets are off, and your fantasy scenario comes true. So, if that’s what you want to see happen…then go ahead. FAFO. Because as much as you might like to imagine you can take on the US military with your home stash of guns…you don’t have enough ammo to “save your neighbors” from that level of stupidity. All you’re going to do is get a lot of people killed, and accomplish exactly nothing.
If they want escalation then they can take it when ever they want. Police just wear plain clothes and throw a brick. Bam and done, at this point it’s best to just assume violence and act accusingly, it’s not like the media are impartial.
We had six months without protests. The administration seemed happy to escalate in their absence.
What if these protests aren’t what’s driving public policy? What if the problem is the administration itself and not the people reacting to the violence they’re inflicting on the locals?
And ask yourself this. If ICE came into your city, what kind of community would you want to live in? One where your neighbors took to the streets to shut down the police convoys and scare off these thugs? Or one where friendly neighbors locked their doors and hid, while reactionary neighbors singled you out for the police to grab?
I’m not opposed to protests…the LA protests in particular. I’m opposed to violent confrontations with Trump’s thugs. I’m opposed to citizens being the ones to escalate the situation. Trump already wants this. All I’m saying is don’t give him what he wants. Let them be the ones to escalate. We all know it’s coming…so why give him the satisfaction of making him look justified?
Don’t just hand him an excuse. Stare them straight in the eyes, and make them take it. That’s what protesting is all about. Your defiance is not about hitting back…it’s about taking a hit, and standing up again. Make them look like the bullies they are. Don’t legitimize their excuses. Prove that they’re hollow.
I’m opposed to citizens being the ones to escalate the situation.
“Stop resisting! Stop resisting!”
Don’t just hand him an excuse.
The excuse was the existence of Hispanic people in Paramount, California. Everything that followed was a consequence of Trump’s bigoted pogrom against Latinos.
Make them look like the bullies they are.
They already do. But slapping the “bully” bumper sticker on an ICE truck full of your neighbors does nothing to get them out of that truck.
What the people of LA are doing is so much more than optics. They are actively saving lives and guarding their friends and neighbors from police violence.
They are resisting in the most material and direct way anyone can ask.
What the people of LA are doing is so much more than optics. They are actively saving lives and guarding their friends and neighbors from police violence.
They are resisting in the most material and direct way anyone can ask.
That is true. But escalation will get those friends and neighbors killed.
Escalation to violence is exactly what they want. It gives them all the justification they need to invoke the Insurrection Act, declare martial law and suspend your Constitutional rights. And not just in California.
I didn’t say start blasting. Right wingers show up strapped all the time showing they mean business and are given plenty of space as a consequence. The cops can do the same for other Americans. If they can’t then it shows the public that it was never about individual rights and all about allowing one group they favor to get away with it.
Protesters urged not to give trump administration pretext for what it is already doing
edit: Oh, what the hell. Let’s add a snippet.
That’s an Onion article. You can tell because Trump hasn’t been shooting protesters for months already. That’s what comes next. And that’s when it stops being a protest, and turns into a civil war.
Don’t be so eager to make that happen.
Maybe if we just ask nicely he will stop. Has anyone tried doing that?
He’s already ordered soldiers in, who have shot journalists and protestors
That was the police that shot them. Not soldiers.
There is a massive difference between rubber bullets and live ammunition.
There’s a marginal difference. “Less lethal” rounds are still lethal when they’re fired directly at people, particularly if the wounded are denied medical attention and are subjected to further police violence after they’ve been injured.
Dude…that is a massive difference.
It’s looking pretty inevitable at this point.
Only if people go into this looking for it.
All it takes is a single police officer to put on plain clothes and to throw a brick. They do that on the regular, let’s stop this “don’t do ANYTHING disruptive or could be considered violent! It will escalate!” Nonsense
So, by that logic, protesters should use violence? Is that what you’re saying? I mean, if the police are already going to frame them, then we should just give them what they want, and turn this into an all out massacre?
Man, you guys are trying so hard to start a civil war. it’s pretty transparent at this point, who you’re working for.
The expectation that nothing should happen is a fever dream. All your worry is for nothing, what happens will happen, and the only thing you can do is what you can do. If it comes to civil war, that was a decision made by those in power, and is seeming inevitable at this point.
Nothing you just said, even makes sense. Did that sound profound to you? Because it isn’t. Wishing for war, is an idiots “fever dream”.
“…what happens will happen”, is bullshit. We either make it happen or we don’t. Blaming the people in power for our actions is no different than them blaming us for theirs. The entire point is to not do exactly what they want us to, like sheep being led to slaughter.
You mean like the Trump administration?
Why would I reject the good timeline where the fascist superpower has a civil war instead of destroying the world?
If you’ve already decided that you want a civil war, then Trump doesn’t need to find an excuse. You’re going to force his hand. And any possibility that those soldiers might be on your side, disappears.
Fucking lol
Something tells me you’d be right there with them
Where does the goal post moving stop? It’s not an escalation of violence if you don’t use it. It’s a threat to escalate to violence. If they aren’t afraid of you then they’re not going to change.
When they declare martial law are you going to be saying the same thing and hoping by just chanting loudly you change their mind?
Are you sure? It seems like the escalation is what they don’t want. And that’s why they’re having to call in the marines to try and scare people back into submission.
Passive acquiescence and blind obedience is what they want. That’s why the news media is so eager to label these protests as abnormal, intolerable, and anti-American. If the conservatives wanted protests, they wouldn’t be so eager to censor the protests’ advocates and so worried about valorizing these opposition efforts.
Is that why they’re shooting random protesters with rubber bullets, even though there’s no justification? What are they trying to “prevent”?
Further protest and disruption of ICE raids by protesters.
So what? Do you just watch until you’re being herded into concentration camps anyway? This is the first instance of effective resistance to Trump (the April parades don’t count) since January and they’re calling in the Marines already. This was simply never going to end peacefully, because any effective act of mass resistance was going to be suppressed violently; avoiding escalation means avoiding resistance.
Edit: This person is not arguing in good faith. I cornered them in this thread and they claimed that ICE won’t shoot people unless provoked and then that they’re shooting people to provoke an escalation. Their argument seems to hinge on the idea that rubber bullets are harmless pranks you should just suck up.
Resistance doesn’t have to include escalation. Leave that to them…they are going to escalate anyway. If the protesters are the ones doing it, then they just handed Trump exactly what he wants…a legal justification for his actions.
Neither Trump nor his followers give a flying fuck about legal justifications, and any so-called moderate who cares about that is a fascist in denial. Solidarity is indispensible when fighting tyranny, and solidarity demands that when members of your community are being kidnapped by the Gestapo you fight back, not watch and cry about legal justifications.
Man, I would love to be as delusional as you are. It must be so much fun thinking life is like a video game.
Look, if your strategy and tactics prevent you from protecting your own neighbors you’ve already lost the plot.
How does getting your neighbors killed, “protect” them? Those people are already doing enough to protect their neighbors right now. How would starting an all-out civil war, protect anyone?
My point is that continuing that is the escalation you’re talking about. Consider the following situation: ICE comes for person X and group Y shows up. Y refuse to hand over X, at which point ICE threatens to shoot them if they don’t comply. What should Y do here? Hand over X? Peacefully get shot? Shoot back?
Like I said…you are delusional.
If ICE shows up for person X, and group Y stands in front of them…ICE is not going to start shooting people unless they are threatened with violence. If the entire neighborhood comes out onto the streets in enough numbers, and simply stands their ground…ICE will have no choice but to either leave, or break the law.
But, if you step up to them with violent intent…then all bets are off, and your fantasy scenario comes true. So, if that’s what you want to see happen…then go ahead. FAFO. Because as much as you might like to imagine you can take on the US military with your home stash of guns…you don’t have enough ammo to “save your neighbors” from that level of stupidity. All you’re going to do is get a lot of people killed, and accomplish exactly nothing.
If they want escalation then they can take it when ever they want. Police just wear plain clothes and throw a brick. Bam and done, at this point it’s best to just assume violence and act accusingly, it’s not like the media are impartial.
Problem is the situation won’t improve without an escalation
No. The problem is, the situation will only get worse with escalation. Not better.
We had six months without protests. The administration seemed happy to escalate in their absence.
What if these protests aren’t what’s driving public policy? What if the problem is the administration itself and not the people reacting to the violence they’re inflicting on the locals?
And ask yourself this. If ICE came into your city, what kind of community would you want to live in? One where your neighbors took to the streets to shut down the police convoys and scare off these thugs? Or one where friendly neighbors locked their doors and hid, while reactionary neighbors singled you out for the police to grab?
I’m not opposed to protests…the LA protests in particular. I’m opposed to violent confrontations with Trump’s thugs. I’m opposed to citizens being the ones to escalate the situation. Trump already wants this. All I’m saying is don’t give him what he wants. Let them be the ones to escalate. We all know it’s coming…so why give him the satisfaction of making him look justified?
Don’t just hand him an excuse. Stare them straight in the eyes, and make them take it. That’s what protesting is all about. Your defiance is not about hitting back…it’s about taking a hit, and standing up again. Make them look like the bullies they are. Don’t legitimize their excuses. Prove that they’re hollow.
“Stop resisting! Stop resisting!”
The excuse was the existence of Hispanic people in Paramount, California. Everything that followed was a consequence of Trump’s bigoted pogrom against Latinos.
They already do. But slapping the “bully” bumper sticker on an ICE truck full of your neighbors does nothing to get them out of that truck.
What the people of LA are doing is so much more than optics. They are actively saving lives and guarding their friends and neighbors from police violence.
They are resisting in the most material and direct way anyone can ask.
That is true. But escalation will get those friends and neighbors killed.
Californians have a right to defend themselves