The executive also noted that 500 million PCs don’t meet Windows 11’s system requirements while the others don’t need a hardware upgrade to run the OS. Although this would indicate that 500 million PCs would potentially be replaced with newer alternatives capable of running Windows 11 at some point, Clarke hinted at “roughly flat” sales for Dell PCs would moving forward . Clarke didn’t explain the reasoning behind this statement , but it could mean that people are just not that interested in upgrading to Windows 11 PCs.
It’s a simple reason. Everybody is abandoning dell in droves for lenovo in enterprise environments.
I used to buy dell exclusively for laptops across over a decade at multiple organizations where I determined hardware standards and purchasing. Everyone always wanted a x1 carbon or thinkpad but the prices were too high. This is no longer the case. Now everyone gets a thinkpad or x1 carbon where I work at least, and statistics for market share are heavily on the lenovo side now.
That’s how I see it anyway. This has nothing to do with windows 11, it’s just another service pack when you’re managing everything via GPO/intune/sccm/whatever.
Has Lenovo stepped their game up recently? Work used to be all Lenovo, and a few years back they switched over to Dell because the Lenovos just weren’t reliable. Which is a shame because I still think the Lenovos are better designed with better keyboards, screens, port layout, etc. but it’s all moot if the thing craps out after a couple of years.
A LOT of people complained when Thinkpad transferred from IBM to Lenovo. Like almost all things, it was progress conflated with racism.
The big “meaningful” complaint is that Lenovo used more plastics than aluminum. On the one hand, I get it: my T41 was a god damned beast that felt like it could stop a bullet (an important consideration in the US). It also apparently weighted 2.22 kg and I 100% noticed that on trips and even walking around town/campus.
And Lenovo bought the brand around the time that a LOT of people were noticing the weight of their laptops and there was a huge push for “ultrabook” form factors and the realization that it makes more sense to protect your device with a sleeve and a padded compartment rather than “military grade” construction. And… Asian factories were (and still are) much more agile and able to pivot. Whereas US factories still tend to take years (or decades…) to catch up to the rest of the world.
So we got the same xenophobic nonsense we’ve had in every other industry. These thin and light laptops with plastic shells ARE CHEAP PIECES OF SHIT THAT NOBODY CAN EVER REPAIR AND ARE ALL A SCAM SO BUY AMERICAN!!! Even though the shell has almost nothing to do with it and those still had screw based constructions. The real problem was the rapid shift towards soldering/gluing hardware in place. Some of that was to support ultrabook designs and some are just pure bullshit to prevent upgrades.
These days? Aluminum is king again because it “feels premium” but those shells are so ridiculously thin that they are arguably worse than polymer (still feels great though). I blame Apple.
But build quality wise? Lenovo straight up bought IBM’s laptop (and consumer PC?) divisions. It was the exact same factories and designers and capabilities.
All that said: Lenovo is also a REALLY Chinese company. For a personal device? I have zero qualms and literally bought a new laptop for the first time in like 9 years and it is a Thinkpad. From a professional standpoint? A competent IT department can vet devices. I… think I worked with a competent IT department once in my life. But, more importantly, if we are trying to do business with a government org or a high value company/target? They are fundamentally concerned about Supply Chain Hardening (and for good reason) and that just reeks of “We, personally, don’t care about that”. Which generally won’t outright kill a deal but it does put you on a back footing.
Have you seen any traction with Framework in the corporate space? They are mostly marketed at individuals, but since you specifically mention people wanting higher quality machines, Framework fits the bill.
No way. People like me purchase a steady supply of standardized machines at a fair cost. Bigger companies than I’ve worked for want a lease agreement. We pay $X for Y units, you come in and swap them in 3, 4, or 5 years, rinse and repeat. We also need robust tech support, both from the manufacturer and wide user base. No way I’d suggest management purchase Frameworks.
Framework is awesome for individuals as you can upgrade! No one in their right mind wants to hassle with upgrading a fleet of hundreds, thousands, or 10’s of thousands of machine. You talking about pets when business requires cattle.
Great question! And BTW, thousands upon thousands of those “old” cattle are available on eBay from sellers who make a living moving off-lease machines. I’d never buy new. LOL, I bought servers that way from savemyserver! Boss came by while I was setting up a new server. “Is that new?!” “Nope.”
I know this probably won’t be received well, but I look at framework and I see the least usable option. On some level I understand the idea and think it is somewhat desirable. However, I just think the modular nature comes with substantial drawbacks compared to modern competitors.
For home use i’m mostly a gamer. They don’t really have powerful gaming options and I can just build my own desktop in the case I want with whatever hardware I want.
For not-gaming home use, I want something lightweight that just works. I just get something from work usually. It’s common to have a glut of laptops when you acquire someone or to just order something as a tester or to demonstrate an option- which happens to be the one system I really want to use.
Framework is expensive for what they provide. The upgrades are rarely worth the price to me. If I really had to buy something, I could buy something I really want with the specs and features I really want instead of having a ton of hot swappable ports that I never touch because I just want usb-c anyway. When it’s time for me to upgrade I end up giving my old to one of my friends or family members, because there’s always a need there- two such machines i’m handing out over thanksgiving.
Framework Corp is massively frustrating because their secret sauce tech makes absolutely no sense for individuals (seriously, run the actual numbers. It is almost always cheaper to just buy two laptops AND you have less ewaste because there is no box of spare parts) but is PERFECT for enterprise/fleet deployments.
But Framework Corp has no interest in fulfilling that role. To my knowledge, there are no bulk ordering programs and their software/OEM support is fairly mediocre.
As far as enterprise laptops go? There is a full industry around macs for obvious reasons. On the PC side? The only vendors I really “trust” are Dell and Lenovo with MAYBE HP if the middleman org is confident. And… I LOVE a Thinkpad for my personal use (the nub is love. the nub is life) but there are very serious supply chain concerns for professional purposes.
But if Framework could cut the bullshit and either branch out or work with a middleman? Rapid repairs for keyboards and drives as well as tricking people into using USB C dongles would go a long way for many (most?) midsize companies.
I’ve never, ever met someone outside of a tech role that even knows they exist.
If someone isn’t happy with a lenovo, it’s because they want that coveted apple logo on the lid.
The primary concerns in the enterprise environment are around standardization. I only want a couple of models to manage per year so that the support guys don’t have to worry too much about some willy wonka bullshit that doesn’t work because that one system is an oddball. The nice thing too about lenovo (or dell) has traditionally been support services. If you know the words to say you can get them to ship out anything with a tech to replace anything after a single call and not running all the silly diagnostics. I know dell has been on the decline for support services and I honestly don’t handle any of the warranty repairs myself, but my impression is that it still works.
In some weird way it does feel like things flipped overnight. Maybe it was the pandemic? Definitely went from ~2019 all dell to ~2023 ultramajority lenovo. None of this is scientific though lol
Now everybody is fleeing vmware to nutanix and hyper v. We live in strange times.
It’s a simple reason. Everybody is abandoning dell in droves for lenovo in enterprise environments.
I used to buy dell exclusively for laptops across over a decade at multiple organizations where I determined hardware standards and purchasing. Everyone always wanted a x1 carbon or thinkpad but the prices were too high. This is no longer the case. Now everyone gets a thinkpad or x1 carbon where I work at least, and statistics for market share are heavily on the lenovo side now.
That’s how I see it anyway. This has nothing to do with windows 11, it’s just another service pack when you’re managing everything via GPO/intune/sccm/whatever.
Has Lenovo stepped their game up recently? Work used to be all Lenovo, and a few years back they switched over to Dell because the Lenovos just weren’t reliable. Which is a shame because I still think the Lenovos are better designed with better keyboards, screens, port layout, etc. but it’s all moot if the thing craps out after a couple of years.
A LOT of people complained when Thinkpad transferred from IBM to Lenovo. Like almost all things, it was progress conflated with racism.
The big “meaningful” complaint is that Lenovo used more plastics than aluminum. On the one hand, I get it: my T41 was a god damned beast that felt like it could stop a bullet (an important consideration in the US). It also apparently weighted 2.22 kg and I 100% noticed that on trips and even walking around town/campus.
And Lenovo bought the brand around the time that a LOT of people were noticing the weight of their laptops and there was a huge push for “ultrabook” form factors and the realization that it makes more sense to protect your device with a sleeve and a padded compartment rather than “military grade” construction. And… Asian factories were (and still are) much more agile and able to pivot. Whereas US factories still tend to take years (or decades…) to catch up to the rest of the world.
So we got the same xenophobic nonsense we’ve had in every other industry. These thin and light laptops with plastic shells ARE CHEAP PIECES OF SHIT THAT NOBODY CAN EVER REPAIR AND ARE ALL A SCAM SO BUY AMERICAN!!! Even though the shell has almost nothing to do with it and those still had screw based constructions. The real problem was the rapid shift towards soldering/gluing hardware in place. Some of that was to support ultrabook designs and some are just pure bullshit to prevent upgrades.
These days? Aluminum is king again because it “feels premium” but those shells are so ridiculously thin that they are arguably worse than polymer (still feels great though). I blame Apple.
But build quality wise? Lenovo straight up bought IBM’s laptop (and consumer PC?) divisions. It was the exact same factories and designers and capabilities.
All that said: Lenovo is also a REALLY Chinese company. For a personal device? I have zero qualms and literally bought a new laptop for the first time in like 9 years and it is a Thinkpad. From a professional standpoint? A competent IT department can vet devices. I… think I worked with a competent IT department once in my life. But, more importantly, if we are trying to do business with a government org or a high value company/target? They are fundamentally concerned about Supply Chain Hardening (and for good reason) and that just reeks of “We, personally, don’t care about that”. Which generally won’t outright kill a deal but it does put you on a back footing.
Have you seen any traction with Framework in the corporate space? They are mostly marketed at individuals, but since you specifically mention people wanting higher quality machines, Framework fits the bill.
No way. People like me purchase a steady supply of standardized machines at a fair cost. Bigger companies than I’ve worked for want a lease agreement. We pay $X for Y units, you come in and swap them in 3, 4, or 5 years, rinse and repeat. We also need robust tech support, both from the manufacturer and wide user base. No way I’d suggest management purchase Frameworks.
Framework is awesome for individuals as you can upgrade! No one in their right mind wants to hassle with upgrading a fleet of hundreds, thousands, or 10’s of thousands of machine. You talking about pets when business requires cattle.
https://www.hava.io/blog/cattle-vs-pets-devops-explained
Great question! And BTW, thousands upon thousands of those “old” cattle are available on eBay from sellers who make a living moving off-lease machines. I’d never buy new. LOL, I bought servers that way from savemyserver! Boss came by while I was setting up a new server. “Is that new?!” “Nope.”
I know this probably won’t be received well, but I look at framework and I see the least usable option. On some level I understand the idea and think it is somewhat desirable. However, I just think the modular nature comes with substantial drawbacks compared to modern competitors.
For home use i’m mostly a gamer. They don’t really have powerful gaming options and I can just build my own desktop in the case I want with whatever hardware I want.
For not-gaming home use, I want something lightweight that just works. I just get something from work usually. It’s common to have a glut of laptops when you acquire someone or to just order something as a tester or to demonstrate an option- which happens to be the one system I really want to use.
Framework is expensive for what they provide. The upgrades are rarely worth the price to me. If I really had to buy something, I could buy something I really want with the specs and features I really want instead of having a ton of hot swappable ports that I never touch because I just want usb-c anyway. When it’s time for me to upgrade I end up giving my old to one of my friends or family members, because there’s always a need there- two such machines i’m handing out over thanksgiving.
Framework Corp is massively frustrating because their secret sauce tech makes absolutely no sense for individuals (seriously, run the actual numbers. It is almost always cheaper to just buy two laptops AND you have less ewaste because there is no box of spare parts) but is PERFECT for enterprise/fleet deployments.
But Framework Corp has no interest in fulfilling that role. To my knowledge, there are no bulk ordering programs and their software/OEM support is fairly mediocre.
As far as enterprise laptops go? There is a full industry around macs for obvious reasons. On the PC side? The only vendors I really “trust” are Dell and Lenovo with MAYBE HP if the middleman org is confident. And… I LOVE a Thinkpad for my personal use (the nub is love. the nub is life) but there are very serious supply chain concerns for professional purposes.
But if Framework could cut the bullshit and either branch out or work with a middleman? Rapid repairs for keyboards and drives as well as tricking people into using USB C dongles would go a long way for many (most?) midsize companies.
I’ve never, ever met someone outside of a tech role that even knows they exist.
If someone isn’t happy with a lenovo, it’s because they want that coveted apple logo on the lid.
The primary concerns in the enterprise environment are around standardization. I only want a couple of models to manage per year so that the support guys don’t have to worry too much about some willy wonka bullshit that doesn’t work because that one system is an oddball. The nice thing too about lenovo (or dell) has traditionally been support services. If you know the words to say you can get them to ship out anything with a tech to replace anything after a single call and not running all the silly diagnostics. I know dell has been on the decline for support services and I honestly don’t handle any of the warranty repairs myself, but my impression is that it still works.
for some reason my work is the opposite. they were all lenovo (which were great), but we were forced to switch to shitty dells.
Funny enough, job before last I was buying all Dell. Next job, all X1 Carbons and the occasional Mac for the devs.
In some weird way it does feel like things flipped overnight. Maybe it was the pandemic? Definitely went from ~2019 all dell to ~2023 ultramajority lenovo. None of this is scientific though lol
Now everybody is fleeing vmware to nutanix and hyper v. We live in strange times.