The prolife party is calling for death? This is a familiar pattern. How long you think until it comes out hes fucking kids?
Hey dude, got news for you. The leader of your party fucked children. Seems how he’d measure their vaginas is more of a risk to kids.
I don’t know… I used to believe this, but today I’m feeling that this sort of assessment is more than a bit reductive. If we are supposed to be fighting this, then we need to understand it better and dismiss it less.
Nothing about this is simple, and falling into that mindset is, I believe, a major problem with how the other side thinks. We can’t be better than them, and we especially can’t beat them, if we’re just the same as them. (in this context.)
Except this is simple; You are either in the in group and mostly a good person who occasionally makes mistakes that should be forgiven or you are in the out group and are a bad person who does bad things and cannot do redeemable things.
That’s it. That’s the entire right wing ethos.
Yeah. This was just an oopsiedoodles and it can easily be forgiven.
it’s a problem with how human beings think. us vs them. us is the good ones, them is the evil ones.
and the way you get rid of them, is by killing them.
the mindset isn’t exclusive to any ‘side’. and really, you can’t be better than them. you want to eliminate them too.
the question is, whose ideas will the broader public support? them, or yours?
I feel that you are a lot closer to the answer, but even a psychosocial analysis as simplistic as this one is a bit reductive nowadays. Especially in the context of trying to fight back.
I suspect there is much more to it that we have yet to understand…
It’s tribalism. It’s not that complex.
My tribe good, your tribe bad. Anyone in the tribe who doesn’t follow the tribe rules, is bad.
You may subscribe to a ‘all human beings are the same’ globalism, but very very few people do. And most of those people who do are educated in a certain way. And even those who do believe that… their actions are often in contradiction to those beliefs.
I live in a very progressive city full of ‘global citizens’. Most of them lose their shit at having to see homeless people and open talk about just killing them because they are gross to look at. They feel similar about non-white, non-educated, and immigrant populations. Why? Because those people aren’t part of their ‘tribe’. They are happy to tell me this because I’m part of their tribe and they can ‘be honest’ with me.
A lot of people understand their public image is different than their private beliefs. And their public image may be ‘everyone is humanl’ their private belief is often, only people who look, talk, and have as much money as they do are really ‘human’. Everyone else is a subhuman until they have attained the same level of status.
I’m not debating whether tribalism plays a major part in this-- even many major parts… what I suspect is that, as we have tried to address issues like this for over a century, now, the issue itself (and its roots) have evolved into a much more complex state, and that more is now required to understand and address these newer complexities that didn’t exist in the past.
for example: I grew up in the 80s and 90s as a closeted gay kid, and eventually came out in 1997 when there was a huge global surge in LGBTQ visibility, acceptance, etc. And that went on for almost 15 years until a conservative backlash slid in and began dismantling so many of the strides towards unity and acceptance the LGBTQ community had hard-won. But the attacks, today, the criticisms, everything the MAGAs do to just tear away at the civil rights of not only LGBTQ people but any minority deserves reconsideration as to the how their attacks have changed, and the what it is that they appeal to in their base that elicits their support.
I’m trying to approach this from the perspective of not only defending against newer, more complex and advanced tactics, but also understanding them better.
Even if tomorrow trans people stopped being an issue, there would be some new group to cause controversy over or who wants recognition that isn’t getting it.
In my town there are now debates over the legalization of polyamory, for example. Because here queer/trans issues are largely over and done with. One city in my state legalized it, but it’s such a tiny minority of people it’s not a big deal yet. Also, since only one town legalized it, it has no broad hold on state-wide laws or institutions. It just means that they allow you plural filing of marriage licenses in the town clerk office and town employees can have their multiple spouses covered under healthcare, etc. And knowing some poly people… they love to go on about how society oppresses an is unfair to them and how monogamy is evil.
And yes, there will always be backlashes. That’s how people are. The answer to your question is to just… campaign better. Liberals/leftists don’t really fight, because they don’t really believe. People on the right, fight and believe, and have been fighting for decades. They simple care more about being against you and thus they tend to rally more support. They fought against abortion for decades and decades and the left mostly didn’t care about it, so they lost.
the liberals fought in the 1960s and won. then largely chilled out for the next 50 years and the conservatives started being the belligerent and winning and the left has been on the defensive ever since.
Yes, I know. I am not debating this. I accept this as a truism and one of the fundamental weaknesses of humans and society-- one which we must constantly struggle against… which we must understand it if we have any hope of overcoming the worst parts of ourselves. It’s not enough to simply fight back against it, but we must come to understand what about ourselves, as humans leads us to this and how to, ultimately, stop it from happening in the first place. Or, at least… become better people and society for it, even if it’s in baby steps.
But, first, we must understand the very core of the “why” of it all, and that’s something that keeps evolving into something more complex-- not just in how people understand it, but also (especially recently) how it’s being used to manipulate people into political positions.
I mean we clearly both understand it.
You can’t stop it from happening. Anymore than you can stop yourself from needing oxygen to breathe. Reality is limited, people are limited. My perspective is rare and only a product of certain luxuries that many people don’t and will never have and many people are totally hostile to my perspective to the point they’d kill me if they could.
I’ve been threaten with violence and physically attacked by people on the right and the left for my own viewpoints. Because violence is a great way to silence people who are different than you. Reason I left reddit was because I was constantly being banned for my perspectives that human beings are what they are and there is no changing us into beings of perfect good, and believing you are a being of perfect good is the more surefire way for you to justify violence and evil upon others.
I just pursue my own good and focus on what I value as bettering myself. Other people disagree with me deeply about that and often tell me that I’m a stupid idiot for not doing what they think I should be doing, which is mostly agreeing with them and validating their choices and beliefs. But my choices come at a cost, I don’t get to ‘belong’ or be a part of any tribe because I won’t pursue the party line of ‘us vs them’ and people think I’m a selfish-jerk for not doing so. Even in personal relationships, I refuse to see the world in ‘us vs them’ terms and it drives my partners insane because to them the point of a family is to form a unit to ‘protect’ itself from the ‘evils’ outside of the unit.
look… we’ve had a nice conversation up to this point, but I’m going to say something that is going to sound confrontational, but I’m not intending to insult you…
but this isn’t about you… buuuut you may have, without realizing it, given me not the answer I was looking for, but the lens I need to look through in oder to better understand it. You’ve given me an interesting perspective on this and other matters that, maybe, I hadn’t considered thoughtfully enough.
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trans people arent “an issue” and they certainly arent the cause of any controversy. please consider your language more carefully if you are trying to defend the trans community.
There is no such thing as the trans community. There are trans people of all different beliefs and identities. Some trans people hate other trans people.
Trans community is something people impose on them to force them into a collective group so they can grand stand about them.
I don’t support them, because I’m not egotistical enough to think I speak for them. I let people speak for themselves. Some trans people I’ve known were cool. Others were total shitbags of human beings who were violent and abusive towards other people.
yikes
I’m wondering if there are some people who naturally reject the tribalism, or if rejecting it is something that needs to be learned.
The only people I want to die are the people who want people to die 😉
Yes, but they get rejected by society largely, because people don’t like people who don’t want to be a part of the tribe.
And you want everyone to die. Because everyone wants someone to die. If not physically, at least spiritually.
What you don’t get is that anti-queer people see queer people as a existential threat. Hence why they are very motivated. You want to say they are crazy and delusional, and they are, but that doesn’t mean their feelings aren’t real. They very much believe queer people are going to steal their children if they don’t stop them.
You just described most of the formative years of my life.
I mean if you truly feel that way, you will be rejected forever. Because people naturally want to form exclusionary groups and they don’t like people who want inclusion.
At this point people need me so they tolerate my complaining about their tribalism.
yeah no, youre way off. wanting the other side dead is specifically and exclusively a problem of the right wing. there is no equivalence.
is it? I see a lot of calls to violence in left wing spaces. and I’ve had violence direct at myself by so called left wing people.
Are you sure it’s exclusively a problem of right wing people? do you not recall Charlie Kirk? most leftists seem to see nothing wrong with his murder, because he ‘deserved it’.
i’ve been politically active for almost 25 years, and I’ve seen violence and death called for by everyone. the only major difference is who they want to be the victim(s) of that violence.
charlie kirk was killed by a groyper.
“i’ve been politically active for almost 25 years, and I’ve seen violence and death called for by everyone. the only major difference is who they want to be the victim(s) of that violence.”
ive been politically active for over 30 years and ive never heard anyone on the left call for murders. i can link countless rightwing nutjobs in and out of office that are calling for death. im calling bs on your claim.