• MonkRome@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    That is arguably a far far far far worse deal, asking a country to demilitarize after being attacked in a war of pure aggression and greed, by a country that couldn’t give a shit about international law is insane. The only deal Ukraine should accept is all of their land back with unconditional surrender of the Russian military in every square inch of Ukrainian land.

    • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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      2 days ago

      As I said, that’s a different argument. But claiming that Russia was demanding land is just not the case.

      in a war of pure aggression and greed

      I don’t support Russia or Putin. But their aim has been blatantly to not have NATO on their border here, and to have a series of buffer states.

      The only deal Ukraine should accept

      Given neither one of us is fighting in the trenches, I don’t think either of us should be telling Ukrainian conscripts what they should or shouldn’t accept. It’s pretty morally repugnant to me to demand someone else fights and dies for something I won’t.

      • MonkRome@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        You do get, if they accepted that deal, that would effectively be the end of Ukraine the moment Russia regroups for another attack. What country would accept a deal that effectively hands all power to their enemy. That isn’t actually a deal, it’s another act of aggression. Sure, it’s not for us to decide. But you’re even more delusional if you think Ukrainians want to hand additional power to Russia. It seems like you’re accepting Russian propaganda as reality.

        • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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          2 days ago

          if you think Ukrainians want to hand additional power to Russia

          We usually have things called elections to find out what people want to do.

          It seems like you’re accepting Russian propaganda as reality

          No, again, I just don’t call for wars I don’t fight in.

          • PuddleOfKittens@sh.itjust.works
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            2 days ago

            We usually have things called elections to find out what people want to do.

            How many democratic countries in defensive wars (ones where they have skin in the game) have held elections mid-war? Nobody doubts Britain’s a democracy, but they suspended elections in WW2. And it’s not like Churchill became PM fresh off an election campaign himself.

            • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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              1 day ago

              Britain didn’t suspend elections in WWII, they used a parliamentary trick to avoid them.

              Nobody doubts Britain’s a democracy

              They’re a monarchy. Without a constitution.