The party that tells you to vote for them lest the Fascists win, but when elected, does nothing to fight the Fascists, reverse their worst atrocities, or prevent them from coming back to power.
when elected, does nothing to fight the Fascists, reverse their worst atrocities, or prevent them from coming back to power
Yep. If Democrats ever gain power again, watch them keep ICE pretty much the same way it is now, keep most of Trump’s tariffs, not restore SNAP or USAID funding to previous levels, etc, etc, etc.
We just have to be grateful that the lesser evil party didn’t add too many new atrocities before they calmly and politely cede power to the fascists again.
Exactly. Could one of the blue MAGA folks let me know when Newsom publicly announces he supports completely dismantling DHS and rolling back the post-9/11 surveillance state? You cannot seriously pretend to want to fight fascism if dismantling the tools of the fascists isn’t the first thing you intend to do when in power.
It has some serious Lord of the Rings vibes. The surveillance state and the unconstitutional powers created after 9/11 are this immensely powerful tool created for evil ends. But after the evil is defeated, the nominally good guys choose to not to dismantle the evil tools, but to keep them, telling themselves that they will be used for good. Except they cannot be used for good, as they are fundamentally evil. Meanwhile I’m over here shouting, “cast it into the fire!” But they decide to keep it every time.
Except that attitude pretends that the election in front of you is the only election that will ever happen ever again. It’s a short-sighted view that leads us to exactly where we are now. We’ve had 30 years of Democrats telling everyone “don’t boycott this election. This is the most important one in history. If you don’t vote for us, democracy is dead forever. I know we’re not really going to do anything to change things, but what choice do you have?”
In retrospect, we would have been a lot better off today if in 2016 the entire left wing of the Democratic party just boycotted the election entirely. The fact that Hillary came close to winning is the only reason the neoliberal wing was able to retain any credibility.
I boycotted 2016 and look where we are now. I was young and stupid and should have toed the line. I fucking hate Hillary and everything she represents, but I could not comprehend at the time what Trump represented
I was verbally harassed by a dozen picture perfect Karen’s in a highschool gym for standing on the Bernie side during the 2016 caucus. They did not make a guy want to side with them.
It’s like you have absolutely no understanding of how the system actually works, and have chosen to ignore history.
The GOP is never going to cede one inch to the Dems on anything, ever. Obama picked the ACA plan because it was based on a GOP idea and they fought him tooth and nail until the final vote. Then they turned around and demanded the Supreme Court abolish it.
The only way you’ll get any change under the current system is to elect a Dem super majority in every election for the next fifty years.
YOU have chosen to ignore history. And how typically in authoritarian takeovers, the first step to fighting the takeover is to abandon the captured opposition party and to start fresh with something new. A popular front is usually needed to defeat them. Authoritarians often let toothless opposition parties continue to operate. And there are always blind fools like yourself who insist that they must be supported, though they are just another tool of the autocrat.
The only way you’ll get any change under the current system is to elect a Dem super majority in every election for the next fifty years.
This shows you are not a serious person. If that is your solution, then I can only conclude that you actually support Trump and the Fascist party.
Democrats are not a real opposition party. They are the potemkin opposition, fully captured by the Fascists.
Trump isn’t the problem. Lop his head off and you’ll have achieved catharsis but it won’t be a solution to any problems. A lot more heads need to roll before anything is solved.
You can’t vote your way out of it because the system is built for those with money. You need to change the entire system and no one who is currently benefiting from that system will aid you in that.
1: Gather a group of people. (I’ve got a few, need a lot more.)
2: Come up with a list of demands those people can mostly agree on. (I’ve got ideas, of course, but so does everybody. It’s not my place to unilaterally decide what the strike’s demands will be.)
3: Mutual aid networks to assist people who get fired from their jobs (or worse) in retaliation for participating in the strike. Build emergency caches of food, household essentials, arms, and medical supplies. Organize temporary shelter plans for anyone made homeless by participating in the strike. (I’ve got plenty of food to share if necessary, and I have a camper trailer in my back yard someone can stay in if necessary. And I’ve got a bunch of old lumber and building supplies I could slap together into some additional makeshift huts if really necessary – they wouldn’t have indoor plumbing, but they’d at least have a roof, walls, and heat. I could support 2 or 3 people easily. Maybe 5 to 10 in a pinch.)
4: Announce the strike. Begin withholding labor and minimizing all economic participation until the demands from Step 2 are met. (Not only refuse to sell your labor, but also refuse to buy anything, as much as possible. Also, for good measure, withdraw all your money from the bank so they can’t collect interest on it.) (This does not mean that participants will ‘do no work’ and just sit around all day. You still have work – supporting the strike. Work in a food kitchen to support those going hungry because they’re on strike. Deliver food and supplies to strikers who can’t make it to that kitchen. Build temporary shelters for strikers who need them. Provide security against the inevitable strike-busting violence. Etc.)
You can start working on mutual aid today. it’s not a wish list, it’s something you can actually incorporate into your life. At a bare minimum treat it like church and participate for at least a couple of hours a week.
Ive been involved with a group making free food for the community for eight years. This is going to be a generational struggle. You already think that it would take 50 years of Democratic super majorities to accomplish anything, what’s a decade or two of working to build robust community organizations that would facilitate a general strike?
And the icing on the cake is you can still vote for your democratic super majority; mutual aid/community organizing and voting are not mutually exclusive although I have to say voting is a very passive activity you might do a couple times a year a most. Building community organizations and mutual aid networks is much more involved and takes diligence and continual effort.
There’s no reason you can’t do both. If you are serious about fixing this country we are going to need to do everything we possibly can and then sustain that effort until the job is done.
It’s your attitude and it’s as obvious as a zit on your nose. Nobody here owes you anything, and you’ve been treated with kid gloves by some very kind, intelligent people. I am neither of those things. Sit down, shut up, listen, and maybe learn something.
Obama picked the ACA plan because it was based on a GOP idea and they fought him tooth and nail until the final vote. Then they turned around and demanded the Supreme Court abolish it.
The only way you’ll get any change under the current system is to elect a Dem super majority in every election for the next fifty years.
They had a Dem supermajority during that time. And what did they do with it? They bent over backwards trying to ‘reach across the aisle’ and giving the GOP every single thing they asked for.
Expect the same thing if they come into power again.
They had a Dem supermajority during that time. And what did they do with it? They bent over backwards trying to ‘reach across the aisle’ and giving the GOP every single thing they asked for.
Of course not. We have only two choices of party:
The Fascist party.
The party that tells you to vote for them lest the Fascists win, but when elected, does nothing to fight the Fascists, reverse their worst atrocities, or prevent them from coming back to power.
Yep. If Democrats ever gain power again, watch them keep ICE pretty much the same way it is now, keep most of Trump’s tariffs, not restore SNAP or USAID funding to previous levels, etc, etc, etc.
We just have to be grateful that the lesser evil party didn’t add too many new atrocities before they calmly and politely cede power to the fascists again.
Exactly. Could one of the blue MAGA folks let me know when Newsom publicly announces he supports completely dismantling DHS and rolling back the post-9/11 surveillance state? You cannot seriously pretend to want to fight fascism if dismantling the tools of the fascists isn’t the first thing you intend to do when in power.
It has some serious Lord of the Rings vibes. The surveillance state and the unconstitutional powers created after 9/11 are this immensely powerful tool created for evil ends. But after the evil is defeated, the nominally good guys choose to not to dismantle the evil tools, but to keep them, telling themselves that they will be used for good. Except they cannot be used for good, as they are fundamentally evil. Meanwhile I’m over here shouting, “cast it into the fire!” But they decide to keep it every time.
It’s the same picture.
Well, to be honest, if the choices between being fucked hard and fucked softly….
Except that attitude pretends that the election in front of you is the only election that will ever happen ever again. It’s a short-sighted view that leads us to exactly where we are now. We’ve had 30 years of Democrats telling everyone “don’t boycott this election. This is the most important one in history. If you don’t vote for us, democracy is dead forever. I know we’re not really going to do anything to change things, but what choice do you have?”
In retrospect, we would have been a lot better off today if in 2016 the entire left wing of the Democratic party just boycotted the election entirely. The fact that Hillary came close to winning is the only reason the neoliberal wing was able to retain any credibility.
I boycotted 2016 and look where we are now. I was young and stupid and should have toed the line. I fucking hate Hillary and everything she represents, but I could not comprehend at the time what Trump represented
I was verbally harassed by a dozen picture perfect Karen’s in a highschool gym for standing on the Bernie side during the 2016 caucus. They did not make a guy want to side with them.
I voted green party that year and it’s the vote I regret the least. I went on to vote for Biden and then Harris
It’s like you have absolutely no understanding of how the system actually works, and have chosen to ignore history.
The GOP is never going to cede one inch to the Dems on anything, ever. Obama picked the ACA plan because it was based on a GOP idea and they fought him tooth and nail until the final vote. Then they turned around and demanded the Supreme Court abolish it.
The only way you’ll get any change under the current system is to elect a Dem super majority in every election for the next fifty years.
YOU have chosen to ignore history. And how typically in authoritarian takeovers, the first step to fighting the takeover is to abandon the captured opposition party and to start fresh with something new. A popular front is usually needed to defeat them. Authoritarians often let toothless opposition parties continue to operate. And there are always blind fools like yourself who insist that they must be supported, though they are just another tool of the autocrat.
This shows you are not a serious person. If that is your solution, then I can only conclude that you actually support Trump and the Fascist party.
Democrats are not a real opposition party. They are the potemkin opposition, fully captured by the Fascists.
Dems right now are Fascist light not as crazy but fucking useless and on the same payroll as fascist full fat
So, what exactly is your plan for the 2026 election?
How exactly are you going to counter Trump?
Be specific and provide as many details as possible.
You guys should do like the French, really. Revolt. Anything short of that won’t achieve shit.
LA GUILLOTINE I LONG FOR LA GUILLOTINE
You first.
I’m not American. Fix your own damned problems.
How brave of you to volunteer other people to attack the barricades.
Your people are threatening to invade my neighbouring country. Americans made this mess. Americans get to fix it.
Don’t worry.
Trump
Always
Chickens
Out
Trump isn’t the problem. Lop his head off and you’ll have achieved catharsis but it won’t be a solution to any problems. A lot more heads need to roll before anything is solved.
You can’t vote your way out of it because the system is built for those with money. You need to change the entire system and no one who is currently benefiting from that system will aid you in that.
Fuck elections. General strike until our demands are met.
Hold their precious ‘economy’ hostage while we still can – before they replace us all with robots.
Nice idea.
Now provide the details of how you do it.
It’s easy to say things, not that easy to make them happen.
1: Gather a group of people. (I’ve got a few, need a lot more.)
2: Come up with a list of demands those people can mostly agree on. (I’ve got ideas, of course, but so does everybody. It’s not my place to unilaterally decide what the strike’s demands will be.)
3: Mutual aid networks to assist people who get fired from their jobs (or worse) in retaliation for participating in the strike. Build emergency caches of food, household essentials, arms, and medical supplies. Organize temporary shelter plans for anyone made homeless by participating in the strike. (I’ve got plenty of food to share if necessary, and I have a camper trailer in my back yard someone can stay in if necessary. And I’ve got a bunch of old lumber and building supplies I could slap together into some additional makeshift huts if really necessary – they wouldn’t have indoor plumbing, but they’d at least have a roof, walls, and heat. I could support 2 or 3 people easily. Maybe 5 to 10 in a pinch.)
4: Announce the strike. Begin withholding labor and minimizing all economic participation until the demands from Step 2 are met. (Not only refuse to sell your labor, but also refuse to buy anything, as much as possible. Also, for good measure, withdraw all your money from the bank so they can’t collect interest on it.) (This does not mean that participants will ‘do no work’ and just sit around all day. You still have work – supporting the strike. Work in a food kitchen to support those going hungry because they’re on strike. Deliver food and supplies to strikers who can’t make it to that kitchen. Build temporary shelters for strikers who need them. Provide security against the inevitable strike-busting violence. Etc.)
So, no actual organizations in place. No financing. No leadership.
It’s not a plan, it’s a wish list for Santa Claus.
You can start working on mutual aid today. it’s not a wish list, it’s something you can actually incorporate into your life. At a bare minimum treat it like church and participate for at least a couple of hours a week.
Ive been involved with a group making free food for the community for eight years. This is going to be a generational struggle. You already think that it would take 50 years of Democratic super majorities to accomplish anything, what’s a decade or two of working to build robust community organizations that would facilitate a general strike?
And the icing on the cake is you can still vote for your democratic super majority; mutual aid/community organizing and voting are not mutually exclusive although I have to say voting is a very passive activity you might do a couple times a year a most. Building community organizations and mutual aid networks is much more involved and takes diligence and continual effort.
There’s no reason you can’t do both. If you are serious about fixing this country we are going to need to do everything we possibly can and then sustain that effort until the job is done.
Financing corrupts, leadership is corruptible.
We need a bottom-up movement without that shit.
Nah, you’re arguing in bad faith.
Don’t feed the sea lions
Satisfy my curiosity.
Exactly which words demonstrated by ‘bad faith?’
It’s your attitude and it’s as obvious as a zit on your nose. Nobody here owes you anything, and you’ve been treated with kid gloves by some very kind, intelligent people. I am neither of those things. Sit down, shut up, listen, and maybe learn something.
So, what exactly is your plan for the 2026 election?
How exactly are you going to counter Trump?
Be specific and provide as many details as possible.
That’s my original comment, the one that has you in such a tizzy.
I use a loaded word like ‘tizzy’ because what you wrote makes no objective sense.
I asked to hear a plan and was told that I was acting in ‘bad faith.’
And now you tell me to ‘listen’
Is there any point where I’ll hear the plan?
Because I really want to hear this plan.
I’m not going to waste my breath re explaining what smart people already have. Read their comments, touch grass, and maybe go volunteer.
They had a Dem supermajority during that time. And what did they do with it? They bent over backwards trying to ‘reach across the aisle’ and giving the GOP every single thing they asked for.
Expect the same thing if they come into power again.
Debunking the Myth: Barack Obama’s Supposed Supermajority
And what is your alternative?
What should we do in the 2026 elections?
Please provide a detailed plan.
Put all those new warehouses to good use.
Elect people who are running on assigning corruption charges instead of vibes
As I said in my other post, elections will never fix it. Our power lies in General Strike.
Pot meet kettle. A Dem supermajority means nothing when they do nothing but play controlled opposition.