In other words, you’re just making all this shit up. Cool story.

No, you don’t own a game just because you have it physically. Just because you chose not to read the legalese in the manual or in the game itself doesn’t magically grant you ownership. Physical media IS memuch harder to revoke the license for, nearly impossible. This applies to all software, not just videogames.

Superdistribution was one of the earliest forms of DRM, invented in 1983. Even before that there were videogames that came with physical objects and codes the user had to input.

You’re splitting hairs a bit here with Early Access vs Beta, but fair enough I should have specified that HALO 3 had early access. There was a multiplayer, unfinished version of the game available for purchase before the game was finished.

No one is saying that releasing unfinished products is good for consumers, but that happens both with and without early access. Look at Superman64 or Cyberpunk2077. Just because the dev chooses to slap a 1.0 version number on a piece of software doesn’t mean it’s a fair deal, and just because they use a 0.X version number doesn’t mean it’s a bad deal.

At the start of 2015, Steam hit a record of 8.47 million concurrent users. . Just a couple of months ago, Steam set the current record of 41.6 million. That’s basically a 5x increase. For reference, the PS2, DS, and Switch EACH sold more than 150 million units in their lifetimes. Steam was just a tiny fraction of gamers back in 2015, and it’s still only a small chunk.

The Australia lawsuit was NOT because Valve was refusing to give refunds, but because they did not have a written policy fully informing Australian consumers of their rights and did not have statutory guarantees that the goods would be of acceptable quality. The lawsuit itself between Valve and the Australian government for not following the full letter of compliance and having the correct legalese on the storefront, not because Valve was some sort of anti-redund advocate.

You’re just going to call Valve charging for their services predatory? That’s a bold claim. Is Valve colluding with other storefronts? Have they captured regulatory bodies to put rules in place that prevent new competitors from entering the industry? Have they started buying up their competitors to form a horizontal monopoly, or their suppliers/customers to form a vertical monopoly?

Team Fortress 2 and DOTA 2 were both updated 3 days ago. Counter-Strike 2 was updated LITERALLY AS I WAS TYPING THIS. It’s hard to imagine having a worse take than this lol.

Gamer’s Nexus has reported that it is upgradeable SO-DIMM modules, though they did not confirm whether it is 1 or 2 sticks.

Honestly this is the fairest criticism. Personally I think it’s enough that Steam just indicates what the DRM is clearly in the store, and that they have historically issues refunds when publishers make anti-consumer changes for people who already purchased it.

plenty of games that are DRM-free on GOG are DRM-enabled on steam

I suppose ymmv here. For me, I have a lot of games on my Steam wishlist where every time they go on sale I check to see if the DRM has been removed yet. I also occasionally check these on GoG, but more like every 6 months or so because I don’t use GoG as much. In my experience it’s really rare for a game to have DRM on Steam and still be on GoG. Sonic Frontiers for example - it has Denuvo on Steam but just isn’t listed on GoG at all.

My assumption is that this is something to do with the contracts between publishers and the 3rd party DRM makers like Denuvo. And technical limitations too- I assume there is some level of development needed to add/remove/change DRM. Hi-Fi Rush is a recent example: everyone who owns it now will need to update before January 16th to get the Denuvo removed.

screwing up good games for profit (you know, hat simulator, gambling, push for centralization, etc.)

I actually don’t know what you’re talking about. To me adding cosmetic purchases to free games doesn’t count as “screwing up good games for profit”.

There is also a history of really sketchy anti-consumer choices basically no one is aware of, like them getting sued for not issuing refunds and being forced to implement refund system to

This is incredibly misleading. Valve always have refunds, it’s just that they did not have a written policy at first and it was administered case-by-case. In 2014 they got sued by an Australian in a case that was more about jurisdiction and whether Australian consumer protection laws could apply to digital goods sold by a US company. That was the impetus for Valve to publicly release a written policy, which is widely considered to be one of the most consumer-friendly on the industry.

accepting money from Microsoft to not release a free DLC to L4D, but rather as a new game (just so they don’t set a good example),

Do you have any more info on this? I think you’re getting this confused with the controversy around Crash Course, the 2nd DLC for the first game.

Valve released Left4Dead 1 and an ounces their plans for free updates. The first update released for free everywhere. Crash Course released for free on PC, but cost money on Xbox Live. Valve claimed that it was Microsoft’s decision, not theirs. Afaik Microsoft has neither confirmed nor denied this, but it seems pretty plausible to me. It also lines up with what Todd Howard has said in interviews about the infamous Horse Armor. Microsoft has a history of pressuring DLC prices up on Xbox- i don’t blame Valve for that.

paid mods fiasco

This always seemed to me like a very complicated and nuanced discussion that always gets described as a “fiasco” or “catastrophe”, whether it’s Valve or Bethesda or whoever else. I always thought it was an incredibly cool idea to have a framework for monetization, which could lead to bigger and better mods. I think it’s reasonable for the original publishers/developers to get a cut since they made the game. I think it’s reasonable for Valve to get a cut if it is done through the Steam Workshop and Valve is handling the payyment processing.

Heck, Valve in particular has a history of supporting mod makers. DOTA was a mod of Warcraft. Counter-Strike was a mod of Half Life.

barely fighting back against adult content purge

We’re at the point of literal victim blaming. Blame Collective Shout. Blame Visa and PayPal. Blame governments for not having (or enforcing) legislation forcing these payment processors to be neutral. What do you want Valve to do here? The payment processors are orders of magnitude larger and can destroy Valve overnight if they wanted to.

What licensing bullshit are you referring to?

The big ones being the popularisation of the licence model for video games, so you don’t actually own your games and they can pull your licence at any time.

This goes back decades before Gaben left Microsoft. Valve absolutely did not “popularize” it- this wa ready the industry standard. Even GoG, though they give lipservice about “owning” games, only sells licenses. They give access to files, sure, but it’s still not legal to copy or re-sell them, you can’t legally pass them down in your will when you die, you can’t modify or reverse-engineer the code. Well, technically it depends on the publisher so you may find the occasional exception, but by and large you do not “own” your games on any platform.

They’re the ones that popularised early access as a format.

First of all, I don’t even know what you’re referring to here. HALO 3 had a beta back in 2007. Minecraft was early access in 2009.

Second, is early access even a bad thing? It’s been an incredible boon for the indie scene because it bypasses the need for a ton of up-front capital. This has allowed indie devs to throw up a Kickstarter and start getting money in the door to quit their day jobs, and also allowed player feedback throughoit the development process. Yes, there are some risks and there have been abuses. But there have also been a ton of success stories. Personally I played Subnautica and Hades in early access, and I think they were great at the time and great at their time of full release. Games like Slay the Spire, Prison Architecht, Darkest Dungeon, Dead cells, Kerbal Space Program, and more were made possible by early access. Even Baldur’s Gate 3 benefited from an early access (though that was probably more about the feedback than the money).

Had to be sued into having a refund policy

They still provided refunds prior to that, it’s just that before then they were such a small company it was handled on a case-by-case basis. The lawsuit was about the application of specifically Australian consumer protection law and whether that was applied to international digital commerce. The judge ruled that the laws did apply, so Valve went ahead and covered their asses by writing up the policy, which is still one of the most generous for digital videogames in the industry.

Gabe newall is a biollaire that owns a yatch company and a fleet of super yacht, all that money has been skimmed from actual hard working Devs, many smaller ones also have been squeezed into participating in steam sales when they don’t want to just to get steam to promote their game. Even thought they will happily push asset flips slop.

I’m all in favor of having nationalized platforms instead, but that isn’t going to happen anytime soon. Go ahead and seize all the assets of every billionaire. But if we are going to do that, I think we should start at the top with the richest and then see how the rest divest themselves of assets first.

Technically, this hurts publishers directly and devs only indirectly.

Also 30% has been the industry standard since before Valve existed, going back to physical stores. Should Valve reduce it? Maybe, but if we look over at what Epic is doing with their 12% cut I’m not impressed. The platform sucks and the savings don’t seem to be passed to consumers so I don’t see how that’s any better.

Shovelware has always been a thing. Go look back at the great videogame crash of 1983. Go look at the Nintendo eShop today or the Google Play Store. You’re kind of disproving yourself here- you claim that 30% cut is preventing indie devs from releasing on Steam, yet there were over 19,000 games released on Steam this year alone! Surely there aren’t that many big AAA titles, are there?

What Steam DOES provide is tools to allow the consumer to make an informed decisions and easily filter out what they do and don’t want. I see people complain about all the NSFW games even though the default setting is to hide them lol.

They have also put in place system to protect Devs from “review bombing” when those Devs screw over their olayerbase, then will also allow “legitimate” reviews after a human has reviewed them, that are just culture war stuff that has nothing to do with the game.

Welcome to the modern Internet. “Review bombs” can be for a variety of different reasons and my opinions differ. When 2K updated their launcher and added it to games that previously didn’t, and broke Steam Deck compatibility, those games absolutely deserves to get negative reviews. If a company tweets a pride flag in June and a bunch of incels decide to review bomb the game, well, I’m glad Valve steps in to stop that.

I’d say Valve does a better job of handling reviews than most companies. Having information like the reviewer’s play time and the ability to vote reviews as helpful or unhelpful is great. But really I see reviews as being more for the person leaving it to scream into the void than anything else. If I’m making a purchasing decision and I’m looking for more information on a game, I’ll go to YouTube or Reddit or Lemmy or any one of a variety of other places first anyways.

Because steam has very few employees and basically doesn’t make games anymore.

This is still an instance of them being less shitty than their competitors. They DO still make games, just smaller ones like Aperture Desk Job and Half-Life Alyx. They also support their live service games. They also have hardware.

They make good decisions and don’t take dumb risks with their headcount. That doesn’t make them a great company, but that makes them better than most of the industry.

Nintendo has such a thorough history of anti-consumer litigation that they have a Wikipedia article dedicated to it.

No, they didn’t break down the doors of individual gamers. They targeted retailers and producers instead. They introduced DRM in their hardware. And with the rise of the internet they HAVE been breaking down the doors of people who make tools to extract the software from their cartridges. Even after emulation was established as legal in the Sony vs Bleem case, Nintendo continues to use their money and lawyers to bully emulator developers. They famously sent DMCA takedowns to people who made Let’s Play videos or streamed the game, or even speedrunning videos.

Speedrunning events have had to cancel or ban Nintendo games because of their legal actions. Nintendo has taken legal actions against tournament organizers for competitive multiplayer games.

Here’s another website dedicated to tracking Nintendo’s bullshit.

I can build a better PC for less money

Can you?

First of all, Valve has not even announced a price yet. Everything is still pure speculation.

Second, have you seen the price of GPU’s, RAM, and SSD’s these days? Consumers for gaming PC parts are competing for supply with industrial buyers now. AI is hoovering all the supply up with the backing from private equity. The GPU market never fully recovered from the cryptocurrency era either.

I’ve been wanting to build a new mid-range gaming PC for years now. I’ve kept an eye on prices. I spent ~$1k on a machine in 2019, with the GPU costing a mere $175. Nowadays a comparable tier of GPU starts at $600, and the cost fo a mid-tier machine is over $1,500, getting closer to $2,000 with the RAM and SSD prices.

Valve can get better bulk pricing on components. Their primary profit center is software sales, and it’s really hard to sell software when no one can afford hardware. So Valve is incentivized to design these machines that are resistant to being scalped or scrapped for specific components, and to sell them for relatively low margin in order to drive game sales. We already saw this with the Steam Deck- it was hardware that could play games without mining crypto.

I do think the RAM and maybe SSS supply could throw a wrench into Valve’s plans though. Just because if the prices go high enough, people could start buying steam machines to rip out the RAam modules and sell them separately. But we are nowhere near that level of RAM pricing yet.

I don’t understand the GoG glazing.

No Linux support. A much worse storefront and launcher. They greatly mislead people about “owning” their games. The anti-DRM stance is nice, but unless more people start to care about that all it does is reduce the size of GoG’s catalog.

Like, they’re fine and probably the next-best option to Steam. I have a handful of games on GoG. But I don’t understand why a small handful of people think they’re so much better than Steam.

I agree with your sentiment, but you’re wrong.

Horse armor was nowhere close to the first microtransaction. Maple Story released in 2003 and is widely considered to be the first videogame with micro transactions. You could make a strong argument that arcade games were the origin of micro transactions even.

Part of what made the horse armor so egregious was that it was for a full-priced game. And it’s also worth pointing out that Microsoft was involved in that mess too. They had purchased times exclusivity for Oblivion on Windows and Xbox. An unnamed Microsoft executive allegedly went to Todd Howard and compared the pricing to things like Xbox system themes or iPhone ringtones, when at the time a 30s crappy quality version of your favorite song might cost $5.

Gambling has existed for thousands of years. I don’t blame Valve. I don’t really play their FtP games much, but my understanding is that the micro transactions are mostly cosmetic and not pay-to-win. There were times in my life when FtP games were a great boon and I had the discipline to not buy micro transactions, but today I prefer games that are just one purchase. Still, just because I don’t like FtP games doesn’t mean they shouldn’t exist or that I hate Valve for having some.

I mean, Valve still could have easily stopped once it became clear that the Microsoft Store was a complete failure, but they didn’t.

You never owned your own games, you just never read the documentation that came with your discs and cartridges before.

Even GOG, who pays lipservice to “owning” your win games, just sells the same “license to access” the software that everyone else does. You can’t re-sell it, you can’t reverse-engineer code or modify most games, you can’t leave these “possessions” in your estate. You don’t own them.

A few years ago? I would have said “oh that’s near for laypeople, but I am better off building my own PC”.

With the prices of GPU’s, RAM, and SSD’s… The Steam Machine might legit be a better value than building it myself.

Is it a brigade of worshippers or just pointing out a bad take is bad?

They are responsible for some of the worst practices in modern video games

Such as? They didn’t invent micro transactions or DLC or DRM. They allow publishers to do that on their platform but do a better job than any other store at communicating those things to consumers.

not a consumer focused company

The reason Valve gets glazed is that they BALANCE the needs of their stakeholders better.

Microsoft has been laying off workers and increasing the price of their crappy hardware no one wants, trying to push Xbox Live so that consumers own nothing and just rent acces to games. They buy up studios and force them to make soulless games stuffed with micro transactions or just close them down. Even the famous horse armor debacle from Bethesda was because Microsoft pushed them to do it (the game was a timed exclusive for Windows and Xbox).

Nintendo insists on charging ridiculous amount for underpowered hardware, forcing their own proprietary cartridge formats that don’t even have the game on it. Lockig. Their old library in a disney-like vault of either not publishing those old games, locking them behind a subscription, or charging ridiculous prices for ports to modern hardware. Refusing to publish on PC. To their credit, Nintendo seems to treat their employees well at least, with the executives taking significant pay cuts during the WiiU era in order to avoid layoffs or pay cuts for the rest of their employees.

Sony is… Mostly fine. They have had some layoffs, but nowhere near Xbox levels. Their hardware is expensive, but it’s also the most capable (maybe some debate with the Series X but that’s also more expensive)- they’re just targeting a premium demographic and leaving the budget tier behind. Sony has been dominating hardware sales this generation simply by sucking less than the others. The biggest criticism is probably that all of their 1st party games are starting to feel the same: 3rd person over-the-shoulder cinematic experiences. It’s also fair to criticize failed projects like PSVR2 I suppose, but I would say part of why that failed is that Sony didn’t try to shove it down consumers throats and instead just made it available and let consumers tell them how much they want it (which was not much). In contrast to things like the Xbox Kinect or the WiiU Gamepad.

Epic games… I mean Tim Sweeney is just plain shitty. Their whole business model is to throw Fortnight money at everything and hope. Throw money at publishers for times exclusivity. Throw free games at consumers hoping they don’t realize how terrible the platform is. Taking a lower cut of sales than Steam or physical retailers do is cool for the publishers, but that isn’t enough to make me want to set up an account.

GOG is a fine niche. On paper I love the idea of changing the way games are sold so that people own games. Except you still don’t. The publishers are still selling the exact same licenses they sell everywhere else. I can’t copy or modify or re-sell my games, I can’t leave them to my estate when I die, so I don’t call that ‘owning’ my games. It’s really hard to take them seriously when they don’t support Linux too. Plus the launcher and the platform just don’t have the features that Steam does.

In contrast… Searching for Valve layoffs on the internet I can only see that they laid off 13 people back in 2019. The Steam Store does a better job than any other of providing information for consumers to make informed decisions: what control options are available, what DRM and EULA’s the publisher requires, what DLC and bundles are available, the use of AI in game creation, and a ton more. And as for price… You might occasionally find games cheaper elsewhere, but it’s rare. Then the hardware… The Steam Deck is the best value anyone has put out since… Honestly I can’t think of a better value in history. It’s better than the PS2, the Wii, the GBA, everything else i can think of. The Valve Index was a competitive high-end VR system and the first steam controller has issues, but filled a specific niche and was a cult classic. The new hardware looks like it will be great, though of course we will need to see how it goes and what the prices are.

I would love it if Valve could stand up to payment processors to fight censorship, but I also understand they’re over a barrel there. I would love it if Valve could convince publishers to get rid of DRM but that does not seem like a reasonable expectation (especially as long as people are willing to buy games with DRM anyways- I blame consumers for not caring more than I blame Valve). I might even be cool if Valve reduced their cut, but… Is that really what the games industry needs?

It’s really bizarre to me how on Lemmy any time Valve does anything good there’s a bunch of comments chastising people for “glazing” them or being “fanboys”. Sometimes companies (especially ones that are not publicly traded) stumble into making decent decisions. There are still a few corporations that act like they are in mid-stage capitalism instead of late-stage capitalism. Costco would be another example in the grocery industry- I don’t love them or everything they do, but they at least make some effort to balance the interest of ownership, employees, consumers, and suppliers so that they can sustain long-term business relationships instead of chasing quarterly profit increases.

Source: you made it up

It’s classic rent seeking. We will own nothing, just lease a low-powered client device from our phone carrier or ISP and do everything in the cloud with AI.

That seems to be the plan from these megacorps anyways.

I played a decent number of games this year, and a lot of games that have huge fan bases. God of War 2018, Bloodborne (my first ever soulslike), Baldur’s Gate 3, Disco Elysium, and more. But the one that keeps gnawing at me is Subnautica

I remember when it was in early access I watched Markiplier play it, and it piqued my interest enough that it was the first time I ever bought anything in early access. Which is very unusual for me (I think the only other time I’ve done that was Hades, which was also great). I played through as much of the game as there was at the time, or at least as I could find. Which was still mostly in the safe shallows, no deep areas. Still out in a dozen hours or so and was satisfied given the price so I moved on.

In 2024 i recommended it to my wife, who loves marine biology and base building games. She, in turn loved the game and I watched her play through it. I got to see all of the deep areas. After watching her play it and the DLC I got the itch to go back to it, so I started a new file in late 2024.

By mid-January 2025 I was about halfway through that file. My wife visiting her friend in another city, so I had the house to myself, I think I took some PTO too. Single-digit temperatures Farenheit outside. My wife had taken our only car, so I was loaded up with plenty of weed, drinks, food, and snacks. So I had a few days to focus and finish that first file. I had such a great time I did something else I almost never do: I immediately started a new file to play it again. While I had so much fun, I also learned so much and had so many ideas of what I could have done better. Better places to build based, exploring in a different order, knowing all the great spots to farm resources and get blueprints and everything.

So I played through again. The soundtrack is phenomenal synthwave that perfectly suits the game, but by the time I had built my cyclops and was ready to plunge down into the depths I was also ready for a new soundtrack. I put on one of my favorite albums, which is also one of the most appropriate: Oceanic, by Isis.

I strongly recommend this to anyone who likes Isis or Subnautica. Just absolutely sublime. It’s like peanut butter and chocolate.

AI has slop is a problem, and Shovelware has been a problem for decades, basically as long as videogames have existed.

However, a LOT of these cheap and obscure games on steam have more innocuous explanations, with that explanation often being “the dev doesn’t really care about making money”. Perception, for example, is a student project that was released for free and I wouldn’t pay much for anyways, but it was a fun way to spend a couple of hours.

Or when I was in a band, one of the other members was a developer by trade who, as a hobby, connects with a couple of his other friends to develop game that he released on steam. I recorded and produced an EP for that band and we released it for free and we certainly spent more money buying drinks at the bars we played than we were ever paid for playing. I think his game was similar: they charged money for it to cover some of their costs, but he certainly never left his day job.

Or Mind Over Magnet, which was the project of the YouTuber GamerMakersToolkit. The whole thing was a multi-year project where the guy made videos covering the game development process and culminated in the release of the game. The actual business model was based on the video content, while the game itself was just a side piece that was probably profitable, but I doubt made enough profit for him to survive on for years.