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I need, like, a click or hoverover-able version. I’m really curious what the repeat offenders here are.
Is this in response to a thing going around Christian circles where they say the Bible contains 65,000 hyperlinks, and humans couldn’t have done that so it must have been God?
This “hyperlink” business is based on a similar graphic that someone put together and it really is pretty. Each “hyperlink” is supposedly a part of the Bible that references another part of the Bible. But I could never find their data, although they sell a print of the graphic.
I did once find a website that documented 100,000 Bible “hyperlinks” and the data there is absolutely a joke. Like, any verse that mentions the word “good” is a hyperlink to every other verse that uses that word
Truly is mind boggling that any intelligent human could consider the Bible as anything more than pure fiction/fantasy.
I think that those who have read the Bible (many self proclaimed Christians have not) understand the principle that the Bible is a collection of stories that are used for interpretation of day to day life to give them a more structured moral integrity rather than cut and dry “this is what the Bible says so there is no flexibility”. Life isn’t a set of hard rules to follow, the Bible gives you guidance, not rules.
That said, I’m a devout atheist. Just an observation about others from someone who was forced into Christianity, questioned it, and left.
I do feel that anyone can believe what they want to, if they feel it makes them a better person or gives them a sense of community.
I haven’t had any religious inclinations since I was a small child, but I don’t think we would be humans without narratives written to guide us. If it wasn’t bibles, it would have been other stories and fables people would have used to both guide people’s morality as well as justify every bad thing people are gonna do anyway.
Nothing is black and white, and I still think faith is worth respecting in others, I sometimes wish my mind was that “clean” that I could get anything from reading mythology.
Of course. Our entire society is built upon generations of knowledge instilled on us by our lineage and what they were exposed to.
Some stuff is black and white. Like hurting other people or causing pain. Things that make sense to not do because they dont feel good. But many of the other moral sensibilities, absolutely! It comes from people before us.
Believing in things that are so blatantly false does not make anyone a “better person”.
That’s not what I said. I said it makes them “feel” they are a better person. And I said that the Bible has teachings that can form someone into a more moral person and that the Bible is utilized by true Christians as a sort of guide to approaching life rather than taking its word as absolute fact. Much of the Bible is false, but its stories make up a moral compass and a way to live life through its meanings. There are plenty of examples of this.
Shitting on someone’s beliefs doesnt make one a “better person” but acknowledging that you will never understand it yet supporting their beliefs by not forcing them into your mindset is. People are people and part of humanity is believing whatever you want to believe in. You’re allowed to have differences of opinions and still care.
Religion is the biggest scam in human history. False hopes and literally stealing $$, eg: tithe.
People should be warned about it just as vigorously as the scam emails about the Nigerian lottery.
It helps if you start at your conclusions and work backwards a bit.
Yeah unfortunately when you tell the same lie a gazillion times some will actually start believing it, specially if you inject it into the minds of kids at such a young age, even if it’s the dumbest shit ever
Hey, the President contradicts himself almost every day, why can’t God?
So, I have a background in religious history and texts, I took five random contradictions and checked them out, just for fun. Every single one of those either, missed the context from neighboring passages, or missed the point completely. I’m not here to say that there are no contradictions in the Bible, but the work here is shoddy at best.
I have a background in having been raised by religious nutjobs, but I did the same and was very disappointed by how badly these get it wrong. I’d love a handy meme guide of actual contradictions that I can casually share, but this is not it.
Yeah, if I had more time, I’d do it. But even still, I think memes eliminate a large portion of the discussion and nuance that these contradictions require. It’s not as white or black, as I’ve seen folks make it out to be. I’m sorry you had a bumpy upbringing, in that regard. I did as well and went the complete opposite way. I delved into every religion and I love them all! Cheers!
I’d say I am still interested in the philosophy that underpins some religions, I simply reject all mythological supernaturalism. Having been raised by classic Stephen King religious villains, I absolutely reject the entire concept of organized, centralized religion, appeal to authority or deity, and mystical thinking of any kind.
That said, I am a big fan of Jesus’ teaching. I don’t buy the “magical faith healer” nonsense, but I absolutely agree with his teaching, which is deeply humanist. Most religions have a kernel of profound humanism at their center, but all of them have been co-opted by the rich and powerful and metastasized into weapons of oppression, control, and abuse.
That’s absolutely fair! And I totally get it, in all honesty. I have had lots of doubts throughout my life. I just ended up wanting to believe in a little magic 😊
I agree with your sentiment about the co-opting by the rich and powerful. It’s a shame how so many good teachings from all religious texts, get twisted into these gaudy things. They become unrecognizable to me. I try to see love and joy in everything I see, and that is just a bummer. Jesus was definitely a cool dude. He’s definitely on a list of religious figures I’d like to meet, along with Krishna.
Not to mention that the old and new testament are generally viewed as distinct collections of scripture where the new testament is meant to replace the old testament. Any contradictions between the two are easily dismissed as just that, new replacing old.
That’s not to say bigots won’t use the old testament to push their dogma’s though.
So, this is an interesting tidbit. Although they are two distinct collections, in the Christian mythos they are, generally, taken equally. Or at least, they are supposed to be. Different sects in the church have varying degrees of equality, so to speak. However, they are both part of the doctrine. To say that new replaces old is a sweeping generalization that cannot, and should not, be made, when discussing the Christian mythos.
Matthew 5:17-18 NRSVUE [17] “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. [18] For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
Checks out. I’ll allow it.
You’re right, I used the term replace where scholars might use fulfil. I was told in many instances where old vs new contradictions come up, that the old testament was fulfilled and that the new testament took precedent in most cases of contradiction. So I shouldn’t have used the word replace. But my understanding hasn’t particularly changed. It may have been colored by the positions of Professors I had spoken to in the past. They tended to be from the Church of the Nazarene Universities.
Thanks for sharing your expertise with us!
Are there any major contradictions that come to mind off the top of your head?
Not an expert, but I love the field of blood
In the book of Matthew, Judas goes to return the money that he got for turning in Jesus to the priests. They refuse to take the money back, so he throws it into the temple and walks away. He then goes out and hangs himself. The chief priest doesn’t feel that he can accept the money, so he uses it to buy a field with the “blood money” and it is called the field of blood, which is used to bury foreigners.
In the book of Acts, Judas uses the money he received to pay for a field for himself, and when he walks onto the land, his body bursts open and all of his blood and entrails fall into the field. And that’s how it became the field of blood.
The only way to try to marry these two together is to completely step outside of what the scripture says. That doesn’t stop people from trying, but there are two very separate accounts.
Edit; to clarify, I don’t mean literary contradiction like this thing says it’s ok to do X and this says X is forbidden. I was just pointing out stories with very different resolutions.
Haha, thanks for saying expertise! I would decline the compliment though. I minored in religious histories and actually was one credit away, but didn’t finish. Mostly because I was ready to be done with Electrical Engineering, my major. I regret that, now. So, in my humble opinion, the contradiction/discussion on whether G-d does evil is the most fascinating. Isaiah 45:7 depicts G-d as the creator of all, peace, chaos, light, and darkness. But multiple times, especially in the new testament which generally switches over to G-d being a god of mercy, depicts G-d as someone who does not do evil. Some theologians blame the council of Rome for the inaccuracies, but I think it’s more complicated than that, as the old testament is not without a merciful G-d.
I think it might come from that, and I do feel like there’s something missing in the canon. There’s honestly so many missing texts, that it’s a shame. But I think G-d is in a superposition, almost. He is all, at the same time. However, this is just my personal explanation that comes with my own personal biases. This is just the example that came to mind, because it’s one that can’t be brushed off. Looking into the definition of the Hebrew words for light, darkness, chaos, peace, leads to discussion as to the actual meaning behind it. Is it allegorical? Is it definitionally exact? Who knows!
But yeah, in a nutshell, that’s my favorite one and I like all the discussion by folks, much much smarter than me with Doctorates in the subject. I’m actually friends with a Doctor whose focus is on whether G-d does evil, so that might bias me again lol. But it really is so fascinating. As society, especially in the western Christian Church, G-d is thought of as this one dimensional character. But in reality, He is multidimensional, varied, and extremely complex. I hope this dump wasn’t too much. I highly recommend reading through some dissertations on any subject/contradictions you find, as it is incredibly complex and fascinating to read through.
Info dumps by nerdy folks who are passionate about stuff are my favorite!! ☺️☺️
That’s super interesting, thanks for explaining! And yeah that’s a pretty central contradiction, I can see how that’d drive a lot of theological debate/discussion. Even within the public consciousness it feels like you have the two versions of the christian god, the “turn the other cheek” and the wrathful god you must learn to fear.
I get not wanting to accept the compliment, there’s often a really big difference between a true expert within a field of study and someone with “expertise” in the more coloquial sense of someone having significantly more specialized knowledge than a layman. Regardless, you know a lot more than me or most other folks in this thread and I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge and perspective with us ☺️
Anytime! Like I said, it’s a passion/hobby of mine, so I like to delve into it. Religion is so fascinating and it’s cool how so many religions have emphasis on peace and love that gets distorted by humans. I’m saddened by some of the comments in the thread, as it’s a large indication of people who refuse to be curious and learn, and would rather stay ignorant. Cheers!
You can say god on the internet, the fuck?
He can say whatever he wants, including G-d, this is the fediverse, we accept diversity
So, that comes from a Jewish tradition where G-d’s name should never be destroyed. I’ve subscribed to that theology myself, because I like it. If you’d like more information on my religious beliefs, it could be easily summed up as, I believe G-d is in everything. The air, our pencils, our food. He is all encompassing. I believe there is great truths in all religious texts and to dismiss any, is of great detriment to one’s personal spiritual journey. So, yeah. When referencing G-d’s name, I do not write it. But that’s just my own personal journey, no need to get hot about it lol
Every single one? But there are contradictions? And somehow they managed to avoid including the real contradictions?
Edit: retracted text from my comment: You know this because of an image with text too blurry to read?". I forgot the check the high res option. Original point remains.
I took a random sample. I chose five at random. Those samples were inaccurate. Therefore, I can conclude with certaintity, that the data set is mostly inaccurate. Which is not surprising given the large size of the set. When dealing with factual contridictions, you must examine the historical context, breadth of the text, and related text to the original in question. The Bible is not the only holy book in the Christian mythos.
When dealing with all of these as a whole, you do find some rather interesting contradictions. Some that are hotly debated today in the church. But it’s not nearly to the scale of what the graph depicts. I’m perfectly fine discussing inaccuracies, contradictions, similarities to other mythos. Frankly, I love it. But I don’t like graphs like this because they’re often riddled with inaccuracies and immediately shut down all the incredible discussion these mythos from these sacred texts that people have written over thousands of years and have cared, died, and fought over. It’s rather dismissive and haughty, and I don’t care for it; in a data based forum.
Edit: minor grammatical errors. Changed comma to period.
Respectable response.
Why would you assume that the person saying they took 5 random contradictions would use “all of those” to refer to anything other than those 5?
Perfectly legible text for me. Voyager for iOS.
Edit: here a screenshot
Thanks for the screenshot. I didn’t think to look for the high res option.
But that still leaves the issue of managing to check every single one, knowing they were dismissible and also knowing they missed the contradictions they know are there. What are the odds that this managed to avoid any that the commenter knows exist?
He said he took five at random, and the “every single one” was in reference to those five.
As the other person said. They took five.
Also, I like to take positive intent and assume the best in people.
To memorize this is to win every theological battle you’ll never have.
Well, just fining relevant passages to “interpret” is about half of it. Writing a stirring interpretation is the other, and it helps if you have some kind of living authority to appeal to or are saying something convenient to the audience, since a lot of other people are interpreting the bible in their own way.
You would think a all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent entity would be better at proofreading his main document. 4 accounts of crucifixion/resurrection, only 1 mentions zombies (Matthew 27:52-53). I would think that event would be newsworthy enough for all of them to mention it.
Is this why conservatives contradict themselves whenever they open their mouths?
There is no greater commandment than to love your neighbor as yourself. That pretty much contradicts the entire Bible
Modern Christian Nationalism is more than enough of a contradiction for me to not even take this dumb cult seriously
There’s another side to the cult. The one that gets people to join. They preach love and peace and tolerance. All while holding a hate book of fiction and pretending their god isn’t a made-up genocidal religious maniac terrorist.
They can do that because they ignore reality. They end up funding the radical religioius terrorists, and any radical terrorists that join and want more hate - it’s all waiting and set up for them.
It’s not just one cult. They’re all cults, and in almost the exact same way. They’ve been doing this crap for thousands of years, and they’re good at lying.
deleted by creator
Since two people already commented on 7 and 9; 263 and 264 as well as 323 and 324 are duplicate! Thank God these are the only ones…
It’s even more frustrating when you read older tests which are often collages of even older stuff and sometimes contradict themselves from one paragraph to the other. I guess it is what it is, people thousands of years ago really wouldn’t formulate things the way we do. Also the emphasis on things having to be factually true, and logically consistent, is surprisingly modern.
