What are some things that just get under your skin about games?
For me, it’s games that do not allow controller rebinding. I have neuropathy and my fingers don’t all work. If I can’t rebind buttons so that I have necessary moves (for example: parry) be on buttons I can reliably press the entire game becomes unplayable.
And on console, where I can’t refund a game after I downloaded it (fuck you Sony) then it really screws me over wasting what limited funds I have on games I just can’t play.
I disagree with the idea that every game should have a difficulty option. If the difficulty is there just for the sake of challenge, then difficulty options should be there because in that case it’s not all that different than setting self-imposed rules for additional difficulty. But when difficulty serves a bigger purpose I can absolutely understand keeping a standardized experience.
For example in ARC raiders the ARC are so dangerous that they’ve pushed people underground and going topside is this risky endeavor. But if the ARC were pushovers you get this narrative dissonance where the enemy is supposed to be so dangerous that humans can’t thrive but when you fight them they die instantly so why can’t humans thrive? ARC also pose as a balancing act to the game because if the ARC weren’t dangerous the game would just be PVP with looting. You have to take ARC seriously even if you know how to deal with them because of how easily the script can be flipped on you. ARC raiders obviously doesn’t really have difficulty options because of its multiplayer nature but it does show that difficulty can have a narrative impact and difficulty can impact how you approach the game. If the game was easier it would arguably end up as a worse experience.
And difficulty can also be used to make you feel a certain way. This is why I’ve argued against Dark Souls needing difficulty options (and to be clear, I’m talking about ONLY Dark Souls 1). There’s a reason some people call Dark Souls a cathartic experience, because that’s what the game is going for. Lordran is a world in despair. The end of an era is coming and the world has been plunged into decay. The denizens of Lordran have fallen into despair, given up and hollowed. And Dark Souls wants you to feel that. Dark Souls wants you to feel the despair and find the will to continue despite that despair, lest you become one of the hollowed people of Lordran. The game is challenging specifically to make you feel like you’re being treated unfairly, like you’re against impossible odds, like you’re supposed to fail, like there’s no point playing and just give up and never play again. Because when you eventually overcome that unfair and impossible scenario you’ve failed a dozen times all the emotional tension gets released and you achieve catharsis. If you don’t feel the failure you can’t feel the catharsis thus by making the game easier the game loses a part of what it is.
Dark Souls is not just a game, Dark Souls is a piece of art. We give other art the respect to be their own thing. People accept Kafka novels are hard to read. People accept The Downward Spiral is hard to listen. People accept Requiem for a dream is hard to watch. But when Dark Souls is hard to play we complain? I say let art be art. If we want to treat games as art then every game can’t have difficulty options. Some games can, will and do use difficulty in a way that elevates their artistic vision. In my eyes denying games the tool of difficulty is to deny that games can be art.
Whats difficult for you is impossible for others. Difficulty options are accessibility features and nothing will ever convince me otherwise
And not everything is for everyone. Do you think (former) drug addicts would be comfortable watching Requiem for a dream? Would you argue the movie needs a cut that is suitable for addicts?
If you have a specific trigger you may want to research the movie ahead of time for content. Resources like does the dog die help. Depending on your exact needs you may be able to use other tactics like watching with a friend.
With games this is different in a couple big ways.
With movies, there are still accessibility things that people do rightly complain about, like the sound mixing. Whispery actors mixed purely for movie theaters is an accessibility problem, even if it’s not typically framed that way.
And if people don’t want a challenging game they can research beforehand and decide not to play it. Or they can get a friend to help or they can find mods for the game or they can watch a playthrough. But with games instead of working around the vision (like you’ve suggested with movies) we decide that developers should compromise their vision.
I think you’re mixing up difficulty for the sake of difficulty with difficulty for the purpose of something else. You can tune difficulty for the sake of difficulty and I don’t an issue there. I don’t think you can tune difficulty that’s designed to evoke a specific feeling or guide the player in a specific way. Take the Asylum demon from Dark Souls. It’s supposed to be near-impossible to beat the first time you see it because the game is telling you to do something different. If you turn the difficulty down and it becomes beatable then you’re actually skipping the rest of the tutorial the game designed for you. And of course environmental difficulties are even harder to tune. You can make Sens Fortress deal less damage but if you can’t avoid the traps you’re still going to end up knocked off and have to start again.
Difficulty is much harder to research. It’s relatively easy to find if there’s depictions of drug use in a movie.
It’s much harder to tell how hard or easy a game is. I’m reasonably experienced with games, and every time I start one I still waffle over difficulty.
Dark souls often has both its difficulty and the importance of its difficulty to the experience overblown. You can still have encounters like Asylum Demon and Sen’s Fortress alongside difficulty settings.
Get outta here strawman
How is that a strawman? It’s literally my point translated to the movie medium. If it’s okay to demand easier options for games that deliberately use difficulty for artistic purposes why wouldn’t it be okay to make similar demands in other mediums?
Its a straw man because no drug addicts are actually calling for this
But if someone did would you agree with them?
When someone calls you out for strawmanning, doubling down on the straw man in question doesn’t work lol
When someone fails to explain how something is a strawman I don’t give a fuck when they double down on calling it a strawman.
You are failing to see that people with some sort of disability are already against impossible odds, not only in the game but in life. They already know that feeling you talk about, why not let them partake in this piece of art? It will still be a challenge.
If your worry is that normies would exploit this and not “earn” their victory, it also does not affect your experience of the game at all. Just like nobody is going to force you to do a SL1 run - that’s a choice-, why not have that the other way arround? :)
That is just opening up a whole other can of worms. Would you argue sim racing games should cater to people with disabilities? Should puzzle games cater to people who don’t have the capacity to solve puzzles?
I love how you instantly assume the kind of person I am. Yeah, it would be my choice to do a SL1 run, the game isn’t designed around doing SL1 runs. The game is designed around evoking a specific emotion that requires people to be challenged enough to feel like they’re overcoming a challenge. How do you feel like you’ve overcome a challenge when you just turn off the challenge when it gets too tough?
Not everything is for everyone, of course. But I argue that everything, any game genre should be accesible for anyone who wants to try, and like with anything else, people will filter themselves out if it’s not for them.
I love soulslikes, I love the struggle. but I also happen to be intimately familiar with disability, and I know that disabilities and people with disabilities are all different. A blanket accesibility solution like difficulty opions would just level the barrier of entry for some people with a disability. That’s what I’m arguing should exist. So more people get to experience this piece of art. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯ that’s just my take.
Also, I’m not assuming you to be any kind of person, it’s just the most used argument against difficulty options I’ve seen.
I don’t think difficulty is on the same level of accessibility as say being able to turn off epilepsy inducing lights. Difficulty is more of a soft accessibility option because people can learn to overcome difficulty. It’s very rare to have difficulty that is simply impossible not to overcome. I get the people with disabilities angle but I also think they should be treated like people and as people I’d like them to experience art as it is. When it comes to something like Dark Souls, where the difficulty and hardship is so intertwined with the story, world and the metaphors about life itself, I think the piece of art would become less if the difficulty was reduced. I want people to experience Dark Souls like I did because it literally changed my life. I let the difficulty beat me so down that I changed as a person and I know that if I had had the option to turn on easy mode I would’ve 100% turned it on and rob myself from the chance to grow as a person. This is why I’m so adamant that difficulty options are not for every game because sometimes you can find something profound only after you’ve been pushed out of your comfort zone.
Message is not comming through to you sug, so no point in continuing this back and forth any further, have a nice day.
Right. So explain with real world examples of how higher difficulty actually prevents people with disability from playing a game. Make me understand because so far you’ve done nothing but say general statements and dismiss me.
Dark Souls is a game though. That’s just the word for the medium.
Thank you for completely missing my point with this pedantic response.
I got your point, but you’re welcome anyway.
I’m sure you think you did.
Come on, it’s not that hard to grasp. I‘m not the one downvoting you btw if that‘s the reason for your antagonism.
I don’t care about the downvotes so if it was you or not doesn’t really matter to me. But I still think you didn’t get what I was saying.
Why though?
Because we can’t argue if we agree.
Games can be art even with adjustable difficulty.
Again, difficulty is subjective. The art of gaming is in its storytelling, not it’s arbitrary mechanics that gate access to that story experience
What kind of storytelling? Because if we’re talking about just the story it might as well be a movie or a book. It needs to have interactivity and that interactivity needs to support the story. So if the story is about hardship how can the player feel that when nothing is hard? To come back to the ARC example. How would it make sense that ARC have pushed humans underground when you as the player don’t fear ARC?
It doesn’t have to make sense. Gameplay mechanics and the in game world and story are two different things.
Again, difficulty is subjective. What is “hard” for one is easy for another. So let the player decide how hard they want their experience of the story to be.
Why are you even playing games if it doesn’t have to make sense? Clearly you care about the story but don’t care whether the gameplay supports the story? So if the gameplay adds nothing to the story why not just watch a youtube playthrough instead of playing it yourself?
Difficulty is subjective but it has to be consistent if you’re trying to use difficulty to evoke an emotion. Imagine there’s a game that wants you to feel like you’ve overcome a serious challenge. How can the game do that when on the first sight of challenge you turn it into easy mode and skip the process of making you feel that way?
Because I enjoy playing games and experiencing the story they have to tell? How is that hard to understand?
You can enjoy playing the game AND enjoy the story they have to tell, I also enjoy games that don’t have a story but have fun gameplay, but the two do not have to be tied at the hip and they shouldn’t.
You seem to fail at understanding what “difficulty is subjective” means. Who are you to determine what is a “serious challenge” for the player? Everyone is different. What is a serious challenge to overcome for one is a cakewalk for another, unless the player has the ability to adjust the difficulty to their liking and capabilities.
Who fucking cares if someone puts it down to easy? If that is the challenge they are comfortable with then let them have that option. Fuck off with that elitist bullshit.
But you don’t care when the gameplay enhances or detracts from the story? You’re okay getting shot 1000 times and nothing happening but that one bullet during the cutscene is all that it takes?
I absolutely enjoy games that have no story to tell. I agree that gameplay and story don’t need to be joined by the hip. But I think you shouldn’t chainsaw them apart if they are joined by the hip.
I completely understand that difficulty is subjective. I am not the one who determines what is a serious challenge. The game developers are the ones who decide that. Who are you to tell game developers how they should make their game?
Which further proves my point that the developers should have fixed difficulty when they use difficulty to guide the player or evoke a feeling. How can they do that when they need to make it work for everyone?
I’m sorry a game was too difficult for you and you got your feelings hurt and now are trying to turn the entire world around your hurt feelings instead of accepting that you are the one with the problem, not everyone else. Was that elitist enough for you? Fuck you for calling me elitist when you can’t even understand the point I’m making.
Thanks for confirming that you absolutely do not understand it one iota. It is not the developer that determines it. It is the player because, again WHAT IS DIFFICULT FOR ONE IS EASY FOR ANOTHER. You’re the one playing, not the developer. Is it challenging FOR YOU, or is it not? Thus you, the player, determine what a “serious challenge” is or isn’t.
No, it disproves your point because the experience is different for every individual. A fixed difficulty just ensure that some players will have a cakewalk while for others it will be impossible due to things like disability preventing them from having the physical capabilities of surpassing the arbitrarily set difficulty settings.
The point is that they SHOULDN’T DO THAT BECAUSE IT IS LAZY STORYTELLING AND ARBITRARY RESTRICTIVE FOR PLAYERS WITH DISABILITIES.
Jesus you’re a brick fucking wall. It’s pointless to attempt having a conversation with you. I understand your point. I fully disagree and think your point is elitist and arbitrarily restrictive to players with disabilities, like myself.
Fuck you, elitist shitbag.
Somehow you understand my point perfectly well but can’t address a single point I’ve made. We’re not discussing my arguments here, we’re discussing the bullshit you threw in my way to duck away from my argument. How about you actually address what I originally said if you’re so god damn certain you know what I’m talking about? I’ll spell my points out for you and then you can knock them down.
Argument one. It creates a ludonarrative consistency in games where the world is supposed to be harsh and unforgiving.
Argument two. It can be used to evoke a certain feeling in people.
And I want actual arguments and not this “I don’t care about those things so those arguments are irrelevant” bullshit you used before to cop out making an actual argument.