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It’s like we’re living in Victorian England now
90’s
'90s
#weDoNotPluraliseWithApostrophes
but it belongs to the 90s! 👀
So it should be 90s’.
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I’m gonna say something bold:
Surprisingly not a problem for some shows, good example is Simpson golden age.
There is a gay episode but it’s mostly about Homer overreacting.
A lot of the satire of Simpson is trying to be functional in a dysfunctional system, which has aged like the greatest wine that frank grimes can’t afford.
I think a lot of the time it’s Gen Z not understanding context. There was overt racism, but a lot of media that is considered racist now was either depicting the experience of people at the time or making fun of racists.
I’d say that’s mostly true for comedy. But some of the earlier stuff was definitely like “point and laugh at this race”. Like the original looney tunes and stuff had some that were rough. They got better about it later but those early episodes had a few that were a little…close lol
Oh yea some of it was definitely just overt racism.
Well Gen Z is quite young. Children understand trigger-words more, subtle context less so.
I heard Frank Grimes didn’t even go to space
Sorry Mr. Burns, but I don’t go in for these backdoor shenanigans. Sure, I’m flattered - maybe even a little curious… but the answer is no!
It was the best of times; it was the ~ B L U R S T ~ O F ~ T I M E S ~
We can put King of the Hill in that camp as well I think.
I think it’s a better and more rounded show than any of them.
Oh yeah, I love that one! It makes fun of everybody! In good taste too. XD
The Simpsons was pretty progressive though
Yeah, GrandWolf319 was commending the show. :)
I feel like every time I tried watching Big Bang Theory, I got this vibe.
“haha that guy is such a fucking nerd!” was virtually every laugh-track riddled joke.
He said hello hahahahhahahaa…hahahahahaha omg omg bro omg he said- he said hahaha he said HELLO hahahaha
Hey that’s not fair to BBB, half of those jokes were “Sheldon is neurodiverse”
I wish I could get people to care about health care and wages as much as they care about mean words. So many seemingly don’t mind being robbed blind as long as our ruling parties using the correct terminology.
What, and give up purity testing? That would eliminate 90% of our recreational outrage and give us time and energy to actually do something. Can’t have that.
Pretty sure you’ve described neoliberalism in a nutshell.
As Talleyrand once said: “An important art of politicians is to find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the public.”
You make a good point. I don’t give them enough credit for their performative politics.
Those topics are simple and easy to understand.
Understanding the long arc of the oppression of the labor class and the systemic design failures of US Healthcare is hard and the explanation won’t fit in a TikTok.
Do they still call this thread-jacking?
Don’t be the vegan at the party, dude.
Nah, this is why it’s important to make sure “vegans” are at your parties.
I have collected so many of the movies I remember fondly as a Gen X’er. From the ‘70s to the ‘90s. Holy shit the stuff I’d forgotten that was in them. Rape-y stuff, comments about underage girls and basically leering at them with tbe camera, suicides, misogyny, women as sexual objects and nothing else, racism… It’s bad. I’d started a movie or two with my kids and had a “oh no” moment when a part started that I’d completely forgotten about. Some of that still exists, but it’s there as a narrative and plot point about the character doing the shitty things rather than the casual and institutional way it was played before. Just goes to show you how times and people (can; some don’t) change. Some of that stuff was not unusual in life for me back then, I wouldn’t dream of it today.
Yeah I was pretty sure the key master/gatekeeper stuff would go over my kids’ heads but I forgot about the ghost-sex scene.
Ironically, other stuff with a high rating is actually due to blood/gore but the other content is pretty low-key. I’d rather they watch Terminator than a lot of the “funny” stuff
What we consider funny has shifted quite a bit, at least publicly and for decent people. There are still plenty who are perfectly fine with lowbrow racism and all that as far as what constitutes humor.
The whole Futurama episode where bender medically transitions to win in the robot Olympics. Huge yikes
In fairness, everyone else thinks it’s a terrible idea and hates it.
Early 2000s entertainment too. A good portion of the edgy jokes could be considered funny because they were made on the assumption that “We can laugh about this, because we all know racism and sexism is bad, right?”.
And then 2015ish happened and it became obvious that a lot of people weren’t laughing AT the -isms but rather WITH.
EDIT: Which slur did Ross use, BTW? I haven’t watched that show in eons, and I don’t remember any.
haven’t seen friends but as someone familiar with the zeitgeist it’s almost certainly “retarded”
which was also all over adult swim at the time and is recently having its renaissance
I’ve noticed that lately. It went from being everywhere to nowhere and now it’s creeping back up. I’ll be honest here, I miss the word but if it’s hurting that many people who haven’t done anything then you’re a fucking piece of shit if you use it.
I was rooting for the “gay” renaissance where people talked about how gay everything was but changed it to mean awesome instead of shitty.
Yeah that this is just how millennials talked in high school and we’re entering into that “old person stops caring” phase of life about now?
I was rooting for the “gay” renaissance where people talked about how gay everything was but changed it to mean awesome instead of shitty.
wait you too?
Absolutely. I’m still rooting for it but it seems to be kind of petering out here.
Ah, the infamous hard R
Round of applause to Deep Space 9 for holding up after all these years, half that station was bi at the very least.
Season 1 Bashir probably needed an HR meeting abput his continued sexual advances on Jadzia.
Thats why we have Garak
Don’t worry, Garak was working on fixing him.
The alternate universe on that show was the horniest thing in TV for decades.
It doesn’t matter who you are, Evil Kira wants you lol
I see you never watched Farscape and its BDSM space muppets.
There is absolutely no inaccuracy in that description of that frelling show.
Horniest? I mean, DS9 did run concurrently with Lexx…
Never heard of this before. Google tells me it was only available in the US on Showtime and later the SciFi channel, neither of which I had access to.
it’s on YouTube for free
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZVMGCh7sZUjUiCdLnH2koZbTpTM5wp9m
Season 2 is peak Lexx
It was even licensed and translated for broadcast in other countries, but I concur that Lexx is a bit obscure one
Lexx was a British-German-Canadian production.
Lexx is a British-Canadian-German production.
Seinfeld is in the top of my list. Kramer can show up in black face and they left the episode in but someone can’t be a dark elf in Community.
They also had Kramer making the Native American noises and stomping the Puerto Rican flag. Basically anything racist, they had the racist guy do. And it was okay because he looked like he had mental health issues.
That flag episode the joke was that everything he was doing was taken the wrong way. He had accidentally set on fire a flag that was behind him and tried to put out the fire, then someone shouts “Hey, there’s a guy stomping the Puerto Rican flag!” and he is chased by a mob…
It’s like that Monk episode where he has to shake hands with a lot of people from a group and the last one is black, and right after shaking hands with the black person he cleans his hands with rubbing alcohol, so everyone thinks he is racist and everything he does in the episode just makes him look even worse - because it was taken out of context (he is a germophobe, he cleans his hands with rubbing alcohol after touching anything and anyone).
The episode where he was in black face was also Kramer having an “accident”. Kramer is a device the writers’ had to make racist jokes.
If you want to do something racist just go backwards. For example, “Let’s have Kramer be in black face during a Martin Luther King walk! It’s okay becuse he didn’t do it on purpose!”
The writers created the situation. You can’t just say anything was accidental. That’s like those comedians that just keep saying, “It’s just a joke.” I mean look at Michael Richards’ infamous standup. Perfect example.
I don’t think I watched the blackface episode, but if it was an accident that caused a misunderstanding (basic comedy trope) the joke was on people being over sensitive and raging without knowing and/or purposely ignoring context of a situation (I could as easily say “if you want to do something racist, just claim it was a dark elf”). What was being criticized there became the norm, and the consequences are in this thread - people can’t say the name of that Agatha Christie’s work in the comments, nor you can have a dark elf in Community, because context doesn’t matter.
If i remember Cramer accidentally had to much tanning spray on his face(and didn’t look in the mirror I think) or something like that then went to meet his girlfriends black family.
Yes that was the black face episode I was referring to.
Chill out, it is just a joke. One you failed to understand.
The entire point of a reality sitcom is that it takes place in reality.
Reality has racists. Racism is part of life. There is a difference between a racist character doing a bit because that is what the character would do. Vs a show that is racist because the writers and directors are racist.
Comedy has done dark humor and racist humor for 1000 years. If you stop allowing it, then you unironically actually just empower actual racists because your now removing a tool to undermine the racism.
Yeah it sucks when the racist joke or bit is done poorly and lacks the context or nuance to either shine a light on a problem, subvert expections or point out a flaw in society. Thus coming across as just crass.
But not every attempt is going to land.
I agree with you. I don’t believe in canceling shows. That why I don’t think removing the dark elf episode on Community should have been allowed.
But at the same time as allowing what was considered socially acceptable, I should be able to express my discomfort with content.
This is the point cancel culture misses (and I absolutely support some cancellations).
Throwing it back even further, Blazing Saddles is a great example of a writer/director and some of the best comedy actors of all time using racism to undermine racism.
And transphobic episodes of Family Guy and NCIS where Glenn’s ‘dad’ is a woman and Tony finds out on a date that she’s ‘a man’ and is speechless, disgusted and coworkers jibe him for it
Notably, the plot for Ace Ventura: Pet Detective
The ending scene is so rough these days. Kills the movie for me. The premise is “trans is disgusting” which is so much different than, say, the situation with Kramer stomping the Puerto Rican flag as an accident and being perceived as a racist. Context matters. And Ace Ventura really aged like milk.
The joke isn’t so much that ‘trans is gross’ but that he thought he was kissing a girl but kissed a man instead? And then he completely overreacted. Used a plunger on his face, which is obviously grosser than kissing a man. That’s the joke.
Also, the implication at the end is that she had been fooling around with many of them and they were all just realising her gun wasn’t digging into their hips either. It’s not just recoiling at the thought of a trans-gender person.
In real life, it’s normal to not ‘surprise’ someone with your gender. They should know full well and be accepting of what they are going to find long before it is revealed.
Of course writing her as having tried to trick most of the police force with her gender is for sure demonizing trans, and was also a ‘fear’ at the time. Like somehow trans people are doing it to ruin other peoples lives, instead of stop their own from being ruined.
Outside of that, it was the normal overblown reaction to homosexuality that was common at the time. Just in real-life cartoon style, which was Jim Carreys shtick. Plunger to the face is very much how a cartoon character would try to clean something off their face. Except it would probably pull their whole face off leaving it blank and they’d have a floating pencil draw a fresh one on.
Well, specifically the plot is that she was gender surprising everyone on the force. The ending reveals that her gun had dug into everyones hip at one point it would seem.
Writing her as that kind of person is definitely demonizing trans, but their reactions were the normal overblown homophobia of the time. Not trans specific. It wasn’t just the idea of her being trans causing the reaction.
I legitimately just went “Ace Ventura’s plot was transphobic? Ace Ventura had a plot? Oh yeah! Oh, yeah.”
My memory of Ace Ventura has boiled down to a few quick catchphrases and sight gags, I almost forgot it was a movie.
or that movie the crying game.
I’ve also experienced the opposite. Watching shows/movies from the 70s and 80s and thinking, “this is woke af”
70/80’s were a period of time right after the civil rights movement, so they had to acknowledge racism existence as material. 90/00’s try and pretend that they live in a post racial landscape while the world still very structurally racist (I mean look at Clinton and the crime bill for the quintessential example).
If you were closer to the civil rights movement you had to engage with the fact that racism was real, and mockery contempt, absurdist, reductionist approaches work well for that
I like to watch BBC archive videos from the 60s-80s, and so much of it is relatable to today: angst about Russia, the US, China; cost of housing, and groceries; the horrible job landscape; government overreach and under-regulation
I really think that we as a species havent changed that much over the last 10,000 years
Depends on what it was. Episodes of forward-looking shows like Star Trek or other series that tackled social issues in episodes are going to be wildly different than something like Revenge of the Nerds.
I think because we expect so much of that to be horrible, that when it isn’t we are pleasantly surprised.
yeah, for sure the breaking of expectations is a big part of it.
but i’ve also seen some stuff that would be denounced by the right as “DEI woke nonsense” even by today’s standards
I had a hardcover book sitting on my shelf. Got it at a yard sale a while back. “The 13 Crimes of Science Fiction,” it was published in 1979 and most of the stories are much older.
The level of racism was pretty amazing. One story referred to a mugger as a ‘black buck’ Another was set centuries in the future and had an anthropologist keeping some ‘primitive’ people in high tech chains and cages.
Agatha Christie is probably one of the most popular writers of the 20th Century, and one of her classics is now published under the title “And Then, There Were None.”
If you’ve ever seen a movie, play, or game where a group of people are invited to a house only to be killed off one by one, you’ve seen something influenced by “And Then, There Were None”.
Generally the victims are symbolized by figurines on the mantelpiece which get gradually destroyed one by one as the murders progress, eventually leaving “none”.
The previously published title was the incredibly culturally insensitive “Ten Little Indians”, and the figurines were just that.
The original published title, in the UK, in 1939 - an era when we DID IN FACT KNOW BETTER was “Ten Little removeds”.
They did not change the title in the UK until 1985(!)
Worth noting that the original n-word version is the title was taken from a popular song at the time the book was published.
I point this out to demonstrate that this book title wasn’t a weird cultural aberration, it was plugging directly into popular culture of its era.
It’s even worse in French: I read it in the early 2000s in high school and the title was “10 petits n*gres”. It seems they only changed it in 2020 😬
In Hungarian, it’s still “Tíz kicsi néger”, though “néger” does not carry the same connotation in the language, if anything, it’s archaic.
You can be a mainstream politician and say it on live TV, and people will at most laugh at the old person.
Our version of the n-word is spelled the same.
Is quoting Wikipedia now banned on Lemmy? I was under impression arsehole censoring mods here were mostly focused on removing mentions of Israeli genocide of Palestinians.
“Ten Little removeds”.
so for anyone else confused…
“Content not viewable in your region”?
Now I’m more confused.
There you go. This censorship is getting ridiculous. Next time people born in Fucking, Austria won’t be able to explain where they are from.
Chuds not being able to post the N word for a day — challenge level: impossible.
Like, we all knew what the book was, but it was still SO important for you to post this. It was life or death for you. Not saying slurs physically makes your skin crawl. You cannot help but be a racist sack of shit.
I would personally send you to the gulag.
10 little subsets of the the human species with really high level of melanin in their skin.
the screenshot is hosted on imgur.com, do you generally have problems with that one? it was just a screenshot of mentioned wiki article.
Got you. Imgur is now completely blocked in the UK after the “Online Safety Act”, “to protect the children”, because maybe one of the pictures hosted on it is some boobs or something?
I had no idea. Time to search for replacement.
Lemmy admins can create word filters. They replace words with removed when you use a word in the filter.
Most admins only add slurs and other nasty things. In this case we’re talking about the N word, hard R.
It’s automated. Instances can setup a list of words that will automatically get removed. Has nothing to do where it comes from.
Also, jordanlund is a mod himself, so…
jordanlund is a mod himself
I know 😁
Bots will automatically remove certain words regardless of context.
I used to see this all the time in the old Sega game “Phantasy Star Online” where objectionable chat was replaced with “*”.
So “Nice shoes!” became “Nice s****!”
You couldn’t arrange to play a game on “Sa****ay”.
And god help you if you lived in a “ba*****t”.
Or if your name was Nasser…
Same problem but when I migrated from Black Ops 1 to Modern Warfare 2 or something similar - couldn’t name my class containing assault rifles “assault”
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I love how your experience with regex censoring comes down to Phantasy Star Online. It’s so on the money for you to use as a reference.
Truly king of the neckbeards.
Dark Souls would do something similar with names in PvP. For the most part it wasn’t a huge deal but being a medieval fantasy game, a lot of players you’d face would be called “___ K***ht”.
I really thought you were talking about Elder scrolls, and was wondering how Khajiit would be censored (“haji”?) before my dyslexia kicked out
I still can’t figure it out.
knight
k***ht
Because it doesn’t make sense, DS and ER are overly censoring, my friend made a character, bowperson, it censors it to bo***rson
I wanted to make a lore friendly character name in elden ring but they censored the word finger…
Black Knight? Great film
Variations on the way we used to handle the Scunthorp problems are almost always amusing for how bad they were
That book was translated to Finnish in 1940 with name “eikä yksikään pelastunut” (and no one survived), and it was renamed to literal translation to the ten little nwords in 1968!!! Until in 2003 they changed it back to the original
What’s wrong with the last one? Seems like a pretty standard critique of “science” as evil destroying humanity. In Brave New World they had reservations for the savages who still had religious beliefs, and it was a touristic attraction.
“We made a joke about how the main character should date people of their own gender, which is very, very funny!”
Typical 90’s experience…
What did Ross say?
Nothing, it’s just a title based on the iconic friends episode naming format.
yeah im trying to figure this out myself.
I’m wondering too. I saw an article saying that he said Rachel was a hermaphrodite but I dunno if that’s it
It was Brad Pitt’s character in a Thanksgiving episode, but Ross, as member of the “I hate Rachel” club help spread the rumour in high school to stop jocks dating her.
I’d argue their intent was malicious, but not outside the norms for 80’s high school kids.
Is that an offensive term now?
Any term is offensive if it’s used with malicious intent.
But people forget about the malicious intent part a lot.
But does that “malicious intent” apply to staged comedy?
I would think the term used is offensive, not the contrived intent.
I 100% disagree. If I say “go back to your station, you cogswallow” that could be offensive. You should be offended by that. If I say “haha, you cogswallow, that’s an amazing painting” its no longer offensive. I am showing appreciation of your painting.
What does cogswallow mean? I have no idea, I just made it up.
I don’t know any other languages but if someone is insulting me in French or praising me in French I could tell the difference based on context and body language. Did they just catch me stealing an apple? Did they just watch a presentation I did with a smile on their face?
Words are used to express an emotion. The emotion is what matters. Back decades ago retard wasn’t an offensive term, it was used to describe people with a specific condition. It was used because “imbecile” and “invalid” were seen as offensive. Yes, some people have severely limited mental capabilities. Sometimes combined with limited physical capabilities. We need a word to express I mean them. That could be “flogtrough”. I could offend you with that word or I could praise you. I just made it up.
I will say in text communication like commonly used on the internet it’s hard to express context so people rely on previous context of usage of that word. If a person has been exposed to cogswallow or flogtrough previously, first get out of my brain, but seriously that impacts their interpretation of the word relative to given context.
No, that’s what I was meaning. People ignoring intent is an issue.
When offensive viewpoints are used in comedy it’s almost always with the intent that you laugh at the person with the offensive viewpoint.
Comedies are supposed to be edgy. Things age differently. There would be no comedy if you weren’t allowed to make edgy jokes.
If you were offended by Ross making up a rumor about Rachel, then wow I can’t imagine how you’d feel about Archie Bunker. Or Eric Cartman. Or literally any comedy ever?
