Ah yes, the modern version of the “I hate my wife”-joke.
As a childless person myself, I can tell you that I rarely have the energy to “go have fun” after a long day of work. In fact, I prefer to just be at home and be a boring, basic bitch.
I can also tell you that almost every parent I know, and I know many because almost everyone my age have kids, are super active and do all kinds of fun things with their kids all the time. Especially those whose kids have gotten older and less dependent. It is a big, big, big misconception that parents never have fun. They do. A lot. They travel, go to parks and museums, theaters, circuses and talks with child entertainers. They take part in local community activities like sports and arts and whatever else is out there and they bond with the other parents who also wish to build a good community for the kids.
I have also seen how efficient parents are with time management. Not because they were born with that skill, but because they HAD to get good at it, so they pretty much never have a boring day ever. Are they tired and exhausted? Yes. Do they sometimes wish for a break from the kids? Also yes. But I would wager a guess that they all have lives that are tenthousand times more exciting than or many other childless people do. Not that it is a competition. Personally, I like the boring life where I get to do whatever I want without interruptions. I like that I get a break from other people because it overwhelms me to be around more than three people for long stretches of time. That just how I am and that is why I’m childless.
But I in no way feel superior to parents pr have this childish preconception that parents’ lives suck. You can only have that opinion if you’re never around people who have kids.
Sorry for being a party pooper, but I really, really hate this stupid joke and I hope it soon goes out of style and becomes something we look back at and cringe at in the same way we do with “I hate my wife”-jokes.
Unfortunately a lot of times it’s not a joke. These people genuinely think they’re superior to parents, and a lot of them genuinely hate kids and those who chose to have them. It’s a rotten mindset to it’s core that built on hatred of preconceived stereotypes. It’s something that’s irrational in both logic and the emotions that it evokes. It’s literally a new form of bigotry.
People like you should be the default. You made your choice and you respect other people who made theirs. You understand other people have their own reasons that are different than yours. That’s normal, that’s healthy. It means you’re secure enough in the decisions you’ve made to not go around trying to justify it to yourself by pretending you’re better than other people. As much as I would like to believe that people like you are the silent majority, I’m finding that more and more difficult to believe with just how prevalent these smug childless people are becoming in society.
Oh dude, I know Dx back when I was still using reddit I had a few run ins with the childfree subreddits and I didn’t like the tone on the main one and asked around if there was a sub somewhere, where you could just talk with normal childfree people about the lifestyle. I was recommended the true childfree subreddit and was permabanned for my first and only post where I wanted to start a discussion about the doubts and the difficult choices related to choosing the childfree lifestyle. I was permabanned for trolling, which pissed me off enough to just give up on trying to find people like me online to talk to about it.
I actually really like kids and kids really like me, lol. They always think I’m “one of them” when I play with them at family gatherings and such. They seem to always forget that I’m adult who’s older than their parents a lot of the time. It’s just to say that I don’t hate kids. I tend to not like people who hate kids. I feel like it’s a good way of telling if I will like a person or not. Do they like kids or not? They can even be indifferent and I will be okay with them. But if they hate kids, I reserve the right within myself to label them as someone I don’t want to know.
I just could never be a parent because parenthood isn’t for me, lol. I would be really bad at it, so I leave that up to those of you who actually can do it and I respect you for it.
But to be completely honest, I think the losers who make hating kids and parents their only personality trait, those people are a very loud online minority. I don’t believe they are the majority irl. I could be wrong though. I don’t know any irl childless people who hate kids. They are either like me, they think kids are cool but they just don’t know how to be a parent or they are indifferent to kids or they just never got a chance to start a family.
There are scientific studies which show that parents are overall less happy than adults without kids.
Of course parents still do a lot of stuff but it’s because most of the time it’s even more stressful to stay at home with the kids. And as you noticed it’s stuff mainly for the kids. Of course some things parents can enjoy as well. But the main thing about being a parent is that you can’t just do what YOU what, especially not spontaneously.
And the post was about vibe and chill, which is definitely something parents do a lot less than they would like to.
Sure, I think I can find studies that affirms my biases too if I really want to.
Personally, I don’t believe that parents are so miserable and childless people are so happy. Maybe at some stage in life that can be measured to be objectively true, but longterm, dude, I think the parents win the happiness lottery if the childless people choose to never move on from their 20s and grow up and take part in their community.
I invest time and money into my nieces and nephews and into my friends’ kids too. Because they are family and I care about them and their parents and it gives me joy to know that I’m a part of something either directly or indirectly, depending on circumstances. I do it because I know that there is also a day after tomorrow where I would become alone and forgotten and have no one to lean on if I don’t contribute and invest anything into the future, which in this case it other people’s children.
At some point, we have to remember that the world is bigger than ourselves and if we only invest in ourselves our whole lives, we will end up very very very alone.
You went too hard in the other direction. Sure parents aren’t miserable, but studies do show childless adults are happier. Maybe they’re less fulfilled? That’s hard to say if you never wanted kids. Also you can enjoy being around friends and make their lives better and invest in your community, not like kids, and still be very fulfilled. If you don’t enjoy kids that doesn’t impact your life negatively unless you don’t understand how to be happy on your own.
Most happiness indices use flawed methodology. I wouldn’t take them too seriously.
Having a child requires more planning for sure. Spontaneity is certainly fun but I do think that the ability to plan ahead is part of what rounds us out as adults.
I vibe and chill every night with my wife after the kids are asleep at 8. If we want to go out they stay with the grandparents.
Can you be as spontaneous as your were in college or as a young uncommited professional? Not really. But with a little planning you can still have your fun.
I acknowledge a lot of this comes down to finances and how functional your family is and so may not be feasible for many people. But I do want to gently push back at the idea that ideas of individuality, self-actualization etc must be deferred because of children.
You need a community to make it work and the problem is many people have less and less of that these days.
Is it wealth? Is it things owned? Is the happiness a serial hoarder feels when they get a new thing the same as the happiness of seeing your first child born?
I’m starting to think we’ve gone too far when it comes to validating feelings.
I guess you just ask someone how happy they are in general.
Edit: I found the study (see my other response) and they used this:
To assess life satisfaction, respondents were asked, “All things considered, how satisfied are you with your life as a whole these days?” They were asked to indicate their satisfaction with life using an 11-point scale ranging from 0 (dissatisfied) to 10 (satisfied). This measure has been shown to have appropriate external validity and has been widely used in cross-cultural studies of life satisfaction
You have a society that really likes ultra processed food. I mean really likes ultra processed food, to the point of addiction. There are other things that society is addicted to, but we’ll fixate on food for now.
Let’s say you take ultra processed food away from that society. Or any other harmful addictive thing. What do you think happens to their overall satisfaction in life?
It is the objectively correct decision (at least before enough regulations are put in place that ‘ultra processed’ doesn’t also mean ‘packed with chemicals’). Let’s say you assess life satisfaction after an event like this. What would their answers be? Would they be true or would they just be the thrashings of addicts?
My point is that I think if you ask a heroin addict if they’re satisfied with life, their answer will depend on how long it’s been since a needle has gone in their arm. I don’t think the average person is actually capable of guaging their level of satisfaction in life, not to say that the average person is a heroin addict.
I don’t think the average person is actually capable of guaging their level of satisfaction in life
One could argue they’re the only ones who can gauge it.
But there’s definitely a struggle to separate the symptoms of happiness from the conditions of happiness.
Like, if happiness is just a chemical, then OD on it and you’ve successfully maximized the raw score. But if you asked someone in advance if that’s how they want to live their lives, I don’t think you’d get many eager for it.
No sorry, but I remember that in scandinavian countries the difference in happiness was much less, because raising children there is more seen as a societal task and less as the sole responsibility of the parents.
tending to be more negative for parents facing more challenging conditions
I think the above point of the study is key. If you are already facing significant challenges in life (economic, psychological, physical, etc), adding kids is not going to make it any easier, and might make things worse. I know it’s anecdotal but I’m personally pretty satisfied with my life, and that’s continued to grow alongside my kids. But as I mentioned in my previous comment, I have the resources and support I need to make that happen. I also live in a country that provides a lot more support to families than somewhere like the US. Not going to say having kids is all muffins, puppies, and unicorn farts all the time. But it’s been fulfilling to me, and if I had to go back and do it all again with my kids, I absolutely would.
Nice. Thank you. Even better, it’s a free study.
But instead of showing the coefficient of the model they derived, I would have shown figures 1 & 2 which are riveting to me.
parents are overall less happy than adults without kids
Higher levels of stress, less money in the bank, fewer hours of sleep, yadda yadda. You could say the same thing about people who start their own businesses or take up a career in politics or do literally anything that’s taxing on the human body and mind.
Want to know how to live a truly carefree lifestyle? Take up heroin. Folks in an opiate haze are consistently ranked some of the happiest on earth.
And the post was about vibe and chill
It’s this sort of weird backhanded brag that tries to make a virtue out of self-indulgence. Might as well go full Gordon Geeko with it if you’re this far in.
are super active and do all kinds of fun things with their kids all the time.
Some of the fun of parenting is sharing your interests with someone new, a complete beginner to that thing. Some of your hobbies become their hobbies (my kids have taken an interest in cooking and helping in the kitchen, love some of my favorite childhood books/movies, tinker with legos), and some of them don’t (trying to teach my kids how to play chess or sports have been mostly unsuccessful).
But it inspired me to take them to the library and museums and even vacations that I wouldn’t have otherwise done. It also helps inspire me to keep in better contact with my parents and siblings (and their kids), because it’s important for me that my kids have relationships with their grandparents and cousins. But the side effects is that it makes me stay in better contact with my own family. So it becomes a forcing function, that is only kinda a burden to the extent that I might rather be doing something else, that I learn to appreciate in the long view.
Right. It changes your perspective and priorities. It gives you the gift of community and culture in ways that someone like me won’t get unless I actively remember to seek it out.
I’m not a parent so there are many things I don’t have first hand experience with, but children have been a part of every stage of my life since I was little. I became an aunt before the age of 10, lol. I have seen the cycle of parenthood over and over and over again and now I’m going through it again with my peers who almost all have kids and their lives change in so many amazing and exhausting ways but they all recieve community and culture and the family is knitted closer. It is something I don’t know how to explain to terminally online childless people who have a very simplistic idea of what parenthood and childless lifestyles are like. I have lived that shit my whole life so I know what is coming for me and what is coming for the parents in my life and I know the ups and downs of both and I find both beautiful in their own ways. I don’t think the childless people who pull up statistics and and talk about parenthood like they know anything about it because they have read a few articles and studies that affirms their biases, I don’t think they realize what is actually coming for them.
It’s not that they will necessarily regret not having kids. But if they don’t attempt to get involved in community and culture in any way, they will be left behind at some point. Then they can brag about hobbies and vacations and sex and sleep, but it’s gonna fucking hit them like a ton of bricks one day when they realize that society moved on without them and that they no longer know how to speak the language of their peers because they will miss ALL the references and the cultural and community context that was built when they were busy jetskiing in Hawaii.
It is going to be lonely and maybe you like being by yourself like I do a lot of the time, but you still have to get up and participate and show interest and investment in other people’s children if you want to not end up completely isolated from society one day. That is my strategy and it really fixes that puzzle I could never figure out early on in my life when I realized I love kids, I just don’t want to be a mom. Now I’m an aunt, a playmate and someone whom parents can rely on if they need me. Win/win.
I can also tell you that almost every parent I know, and I know many because almost everyone my age have kids, are super active and do all kinds of fun things with their kids all the time.
It’s always funny to watch a guy who has been a sports buff on the sidelines for half his life pick up coaching Little League baseball or soccer and come away with a totally different appreciation for the sport. Suddenly, he’s heavily invested in rookie year players, way more interested in the training camps than any of us have ever been, and saying the word “fundamentals” until our eyes have rolled out of our heads.
It’s incredibly cute and funny. Even as he says “Listen, my son’s not going to make it to the pros” he’s got to doubles back about how Tom Brady was a bottom of the barrel draft pick. Guy just loves his kid and loves what he does.
That may be true in America, but not every country treats its citizens the way America does. In my country, normal families can go travel or visit zoos or circuses without being rich.
Unions are your friend.
Yeah. I’m Danish which ranks pretty high in almost all areas of social happiness, which includes parents. It’s kinda sad for me to hear that there are people out there in the supposed first world who thinks that traveling or going to the circus, or museums etc is only for the wealthy, when it’s a pretty normal thing where I live. Museums and amusement parks are pretty popular here. My boyfriend and I gifted a close colleague of mine a trip to Legoland with the whole family for Christmas one year and they had a total blast. Enough that they decided to go the next year again, lol. None of us are rich. We actually are in the lower end of the earning bracket in Danish society, but we can still afford to do fun things. You’d have to be really shitty with money or too sick to work or study to not be able to have a somewhat decent life in Denmark. The latter, I have been through, btw.
I like that I get a break from other people because it overwhelms me to be around more than three people for long stretches of time. That just how I am and that is why I’m childless.
Is that with everybody or just people you don’t know and feel comfortable with? I mean, I’m intensely uncomfortable in many social situations but my kids don’t trigger that response at all.
Which is not to say it’s all fun and games. They are immensely hard work and the choices you have about how you spend your time, what holidays or other leisure activities you do, tend to be dictated by the presence of kids. Even if it’s something you do to take time off from the kids, that’s still driven by the kids in a way. It’s a whole different set of priorities, though I don’t regret having them at all.
I very likely have some type of undiagnosed disorder which I will never really know for sure because I don’t have the patience, energy or money to get a diagnosis.
There are definitely people out there with similar peculiarities to me who are great at raising kids. I just don’t want to take the chance and hope for the best when there is no guarantee that I’ll be one of the good ones. I’ll rather end up an old lady with a couple of regrets than I want to potentially fuck up someone’s childhood.
I get where you’re coming from! It IS hard work! I have seen it in the faces and voices of my friends and family for decades haha. But I also see the love and how much these kids bring to their parents’ lives. So I totally get what you mean, when you say that your kids don’t affect you the same way other people do. To me that just sounds like you’re one of the good eggs :D
So I totally get what you mean, when you say that your kids don’t affect you the same way other people do. To me that just sounds like you’re one of the good eggs :D
Thanks, but I think what it really means is that the way you relate to your kids is not like anyone else. Like I never imagined that I would be ok with cleaning up another person’s shit. People working in nursing homes handle that stuff every day but I just couldn’t. But when it’s your own kid, it’s just… different. Still objectively disgusting but somehow acceptable, in the same way that I’m ok with wiping my own ass because it’s a part of me. Well, in some way my kids are a part of me too.
Ah yes, the modern version of the “I hate my wife”-joke.
As a childless person myself, I can tell you that I rarely have the energy to “go have fun” after a long day of work. In fact, I prefer to just be at home and be a boring, basic bitch.
I can also tell you that almost every parent I know, and I know many because almost everyone my age have kids, are super active and do all kinds of fun things with their kids all the time. Especially those whose kids have gotten older and less dependent. It is a big, big, big misconception that parents never have fun. They do. A lot. They travel, go to parks and museums, theaters, circuses and talks with child entertainers. They take part in local community activities like sports and arts and whatever else is out there and they bond with the other parents who also wish to build a good community for the kids.
I have also seen how efficient parents are with time management. Not because they were born with that skill, but because they HAD to get good at it, so they pretty much never have a boring day ever. Are they tired and exhausted? Yes. Do they sometimes wish for a break from the kids? Also yes. But I would wager a guess that they all have lives that are tenthousand times more exciting than or many other childless people do. Not that it is a competition. Personally, I like the boring life where I get to do whatever I want without interruptions. I like that I get a break from other people because it overwhelms me to be around more than three people for long stretches of time. That just how I am and that is why I’m childless.
But I in no way feel superior to parents pr have this childish preconception that parents’ lives suck. You can only have that opinion if you’re never around people who have kids.
Sorry for being a party pooper, but I really, really hate this stupid joke and I hope it soon goes out of style and becomes something we look back at and cringe at in the same way we do with “I hate my wife”-jokes.
Unfortunately a lot of times it’s not a joke. These people genuinely think they’re superior to parents, and a lot of them genuinely hate kids and those who chose to have them. It’s a rotten mindset to it’s core that built on hatred of preconceived stereotypes. It’s something that’s irrational in both logic and the emotions that it evokes. It’s literally a new form of bigotry.
People like you should be the default. You made your choice and you respect other people who made theirs. You understand other people have their own reasons that are different than yours. That’s normal, that’s healthy. It means you’re secure enough in the decisions you’ve made to not go around trying to justify it to yourself by pretending you’re better than other people. As much as I would like to believe that people like you are the silent majority, I’m finding that more and more difficult to believe with just how prevalent these smug childless people are becoming in society.
Oh dude, I know Dx back when I was still using reddit I had a few run ins with the childfree subreddits and I didn’t like the tone on the main one and asked around if there was a sub somewhere, where you could just talk with normal childfree people about the lifestyle. I was recommended the true childfree subreddit and was permabanned for my first and only post where I wanted to start a discussion about the doubts and the difficult choices related to choosing the childfree lifestyle. I was permabanned for trolling, which pissed me off enough to just give up on trying to find people like me online to talk to about it.
I actually really like kids and kids really like me, lol. They always think I’m “one of them” when I play with them at family gatherings and such. They seem to always forget that I’m adult who’s older than their parents a lot of the time. It’s just to say that I don’t hate kids. I tend to not like people who hate kids. I feel like it’s a good way of telling if I will like a person or not. Do they like kids or not? They can even be indifferent and I will be okay with them. But if they hate kids, I reserve the right within myself to label them as someone I don’t want to know.
I just could never be a parent because parenthood isn’t for me, lol. I would be really bad at it, so I leave that up to those of you who actually can do it and I respect you for it.
But to be completely honest, I think the losers who make hating kids and parents their only personality trait, those people are a very loud online minority. I don’t believe they are the majority irl. I could be wrong though. I don’t know any irl childless people who hate kids. They are either like me, they think kids are cool but they just don’t know how to be a parent or they are indifferent to kids or they just never got a chance to start a family.
If someone is truly that hateful, at least they’re being kind enough to remove themselves from the gene pool.
There are scientific studies which show that parents are overall less happy than adults without kids.
Of course parents still do a lot of stuff but it’s because most of the time it’s even more stressful to stay at home with the kids. And as you noticed it’s stuff mainly for the kids. Of course some things parents can enjoy as well. But the main thing about being a parent is that you can’t just do what YOU what, especially not spontaneously.
And the post was about vibe and chill, which is definitely something parents do a lot less than they would like to.
Sure, I think I can find studies that affirms my biases too if I really want to.
Personally, I don’t believe that parents are so miserable and childless people are so happy. Maybe at some stage in life that can be measured to be objectively true, but longterm, dude, I think the parents win the happiness lottery if the childless people choose to never move on from their 20s and grow up and take part in their community. I invest time and money into my nieces and nephews and into my friends’ kids too. Because they are family and I care about them and their parents and it gives me joy to know that I’m a part of something either directly or indirectly, depending on circumstances. I do it because I know that there is also a day after tomorrow where I would become alone and forgotten and have no one to lean on if I don’t contribute and invest anything into the future, which in this case it other people’s children.
At some point, we have to remember that the world is bigger than ourselves and if we only invest in ourselves our whole lives, we will end up very very very alone.
You went too hard in the other direction. Sure parents aren’t miserable, but studies do show childless adults are happier. Maybe they’re less fulfilled? That’s hard to say if you never wanted kids. Also you can enjoy being around friends and make their lives better and invest in your community, not like kids, and still be very fulfilled. If you don’t enjoy kids that doesn’t impact your life negatively unless you don’t understand how to be happy on your own.
Most happiness indices use flawed methodology. I wouldn’t take them too seriously.
Having a child requires more planning for sure. Spontaneity is certainly fun but I do think that the ability to plan ahead is part of what rounds us out as adults.
I vibe and chill every night with my wife after the kids are asleep at 8. If we want to go out they stay with the grandparents.
Can you be as spontaneous as your were in college or as a young uncommited professional? Not really. But with a little planning you can still have your fun.
I acknowledge a lot of this comes down to finances and how functional your family is and so may not be feasible for many people. But I do want to gently push back at the idea that ideas of individuality, self-actualization etc must be deferred because of children.
You need a community to make it work and the problem is many people have less and less of that these days.
By what metric do we judge happiness?
Is it wealth? Is it things owned? Is the happiness a serial hoarder feels when they get a new thing the same as the happiness of seeing your first child born?
I’m starting to think we’ve gone too far when it comes to validating feelings.
I guess you just ask someone how happy they are in general.
Edit: I found the study (see my other response) and they used this:
To assess life satisfaction, respondents were asked, “All things considered, how satisfied are you with your life as a whole these days?” They were asked to indicate their satisfaction with life using an 11-point scale ranging from 0 (dissatisfied) to 10 (satisfied). This measure has been shown to have appropriate external validity and has been widely used in cross-cultural studies of life satisfaction
Ok, let me create a separate hypothetical:
You have a society that really likes ultra processed food. I mean really likes ultra processed food, to the point of addiction. There are other things that society is addicted to, but we’ll fixate on food for now.
Let’s say you take ultra processed food away from that society. Or any other harmful addictive thing. What do you think happens to their overall satisfaction in life?
It is the objectively correct decision (at least before enough regulations are put in place that ‘ultra processed’ doesn’t also mean ‘packed with chemicals’). Let’s say you assess life satisfaction after an event like this. What would their answers be? Would they be true or would they just be the thrashings of addicts?
My point is that I think if you ask a heroin addict if they’re satisfied with life, their answer will depend on how long it’s been since a needle has gone in their arm. I don’t think the average person is actually capable of guaging their level of satisfaction in life, not to say that the average person is a heroin addict.
One could argue they’re the only ones who can gauge it.
But there’s definitely a struggle to separate the symptoms of happiness from the conditions of happiness.
Like, if happiness is just a chemical, then OD on it and you’ve successfully maximized the raw score. But if you asked someone in advance if that’s how they want to live their lives, I don’t think you’d get many eager for it.
Good point
Got a link for that study? I highly suspect that the happyness of the adults with Children depends on which country they are from.
No sorry, but I remember that in scandinavian countries the difference in happiness was much less, because raising children there is more seen as a societal task and less as the sole responsibility of the parents.
Edit: found it: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jomf.13116
I think the above point of the study is key. If you are already facing significant challenges in life (economic, psychological, physical, etc), adding kids is not going to make it any easier, and might make things worse. I know it’s anecdotal but I’m personally pretty satisfied with my life, and that’s continued to grow alongside my kids. But as I mentioned in my previous comment, I have the resources and support I need to make that happen. I also live in a country that provides a lot more support to families than somewhere like the US. Not going to say having kids is all muffins, puppies, and unicorn farts all the time. But it’s been fulfilling to me, and if I had to go back and do it all again with my kids, I absolutely would.
Nice. Thank you. Even better, it’s a free study.
But instead of showing the coefficient of the model they derived, I would have shown figures 1 & 2 which are riveting to me.
I highly suspect happiness directly correlates to wealth and not the country.
Higher levels of stress, less money in the bank, fewer hours of sleep, yadda yadda. You could say the same thing about people who start their own businesses or take up a career in politics or do literally anything that’s taxing on the human body and mind.
Want to know how to live a truly carefree lifestyle? Take up heroin. Folks in an opiate haze are consistently ranked some of the happiest on earth.
It’s this sort of weird backhanded brag that tries to make a virtue out of self-indulgence. Might as well go full Gordon Geeko with it if you’re this far in.
Some of the fun of parenting is sharing your interests with someone new, a complete beginner to that thing. Some of your hobbies become their hobbies (my kids have taken an interest in cooking and helping in the kitchen, love some of my favorite childhood books/movies, tinker with legos), and some of them don’t (trying to teach my kids how to play chess or sports have been mostly unsuccessful).
But it inspired me to take them to the library and museums and even vacations that I wouldn’t have otherwise done. It also helps inspire me to keep in better contact with my parents and siblings (and their kids), because it’s important for me that my kids have relationships with their grandparents and cousins. But the side effects is that it makes me stay in better contact with my own family. So it becomes a forcing function, that is only kinda a burden to the extent that I might rather be doing something else, that I learn to appreciate in the long view.
Right. It changes your perspective and priorities. It gives you the gift of community and culture in ways that someone like me won’t get unless I actively remember to seek it out.
I’m not a parent so there are many things I don’t have first hand experience with, but children have been a part of every stage of my life since I was little. I became an aunt before the age of 10, lol. I have seen the cycle of parenthood over and over and over again and now I’m going through it again with my peers who almost all have kids and their lives change in so many amazing and exhausting ways but they all recieve community and culture and the family is knitted closer. It is something I don’t know how to explain to terminally online childless people who have a very simplistic idea of what parenthood and childless lifestyles are like. I have lived that shit my whole life so I know what is coming for me and what is coming for the parents in my life and I know the ups and downs of both and I find both beautiful in their own ways. I don’t think the childless people who pull up statistics and and talk about parenthood like they know anything about it because they have read a few articles and studies that affirms their biases, I don’t think they realize what is actually coming for them.
It’s not that they will necessarily regret not having kids. But if they don’t attempt to get involved in community and culture in any way, they will be left behind at some point. Then they can brag about hobbies and vacations and sex and sleep, but it’s gonna fucking hit them like a ton of bricks one day when they realize that society moved on without them and that they no longer know how to speak the language of their peers because they will miss ALL the references and the cultural and community context that was built when they were busy jetskiing in Hawaii.
It is going to be lonely and maybe you like being by yourself like I do a lot of the time, but you still have to get up and participate and show interest and investment in other people’s children if you want to not end up completely isolated from society one day. That is my strategy and it really fixes that puzzle I could never figure out early on in my life when I realized I love kids, I just don’t want to be a mom. Now I’m an aunt, a playmate and someone whom parents can rely on if they need me. Win/win.
It’s always funny to watch a guy who has been a sports buff on the sidelines for half his life pick up coaching Little League baseball or soccer and come away with a totally different appreciation for the sport. Suddenly, he’s heavily invested in rookie year players, way more interested in the training camps than any of us have ever been, and saying the word “fundamentals” until our eyes have rolled out of our heads.
It’s incredibly cute and funny. Even as he says “Listen, my son’s not going to make it to the pros” he’s got to doubles back about how Tom Brady was a bottom of the barrel draft pick. Guy just loves his kid and loves what he does.
You forgot to add:
*Wealthy parents.
How do you expect people to be able to afford traveling and going to circuses, if they have to work 80 hours a week across two jobs just to survive?
No money. No time. No fun.
That may be true in America, but not every country treats its citizens the way America does. In my country, normal families can go travel or visit zoos or circuses without being rich. Unions are your friend.
Do you really think it’s specific to the USA and the rest of the world has it easy? LOL
Let me amend it:
*Wealthy parents or parents living in one of the very few wealthy and social countries.
My point being that it’s a minority of people who can claim this in this world.
And mild social democratic policies (or as they are called in murrica: COMMUNISM!!!11!1) are your friend as well.
Yeah. I’m Danish which ranks pretty high in almost all areas of social happiness, which includes parents. It’s kinda sad for me to hear that there are people out there in the supposed first world who thinks that traveling or going to the circus, or museums etc is only for the wealthy, when it’s a pretty normal thing where I live. Museums and amusement parks are pretty popular here. My boyfriend and I gifted a close colleague of mine a trip to Legoland with the whole family for Christmas one year and they had a total blast. Enough that they decided to go the next year again, lol. None of us are rich. We actually are in the lower end of the earning bracket in Danish society, but we can still afford to do fun things. You’d have to be really shitty with money or too sick to work or study to not be able to have a somewhat decent life in Denmark. The latter, I have been through, btw.
Is that with everybody or just people you don’t know and feel comfortable with? I mean, I’m intensely uncomfortable in many social situations but my kids don’t trigger that response at all.
Which is not to say it’s all fun and games. They are immensely hard work and the choices you have about how you spend your time, what holidays or other leisure activities you do, tend to be dictated by the presence of kids. Even if it’s something you do to take time off from the kids, that’s still driven by the kids in a way. It’s a whole different set of priorities, though I don’t regret having them at all.
I very likely have some type of undiagnosed disorder which I will never really know for sure because I don’t have the patience, energy or money to get a diagnosis. There are definitely people out there with similar peculiarities to me who are great at raising kids. I just don’t want to take the chance and hope for the best when there is no guarantee that I’ll be one of the good ones. I’ll rather end up an old lady with a couple of regrets than I want to potentially fuck up someone’s childhood.
I get where you’re coming from! It IS hard work! I have seen it in the faces and voices of my friends and family for decades haha. But I also see the love and how much these kids bring to their parents’ lives. So I totally get what you mean, when you say that your kids don’t affect you the same way other people do. To me that just sounds like you’re one of the good eggs :D
Thanks, but I think what it really means is that the way you relate to your kids is not like anyone else. Like I never imagined that I would be ok with cleaning up another person’s shit. People working in nursing homes handle that stuff every day but I just couldn’t. But when it’s your own kid, it’s just… different. Still objectively disgusting but somehow acceptable, in the same way that I’m ok with wiping my own ass because it’s a part of me. Well, in some way my kids are a part of me too.