VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO!!!
jfc.
This is what primaries are for. If you vote up or don’t vote, it’s a vote for fascism.
primaries
Ha.
You pretending they do not exist does not change reality. Presidential is not the only race, nor is it even the most important overall
Pretending that the primaries (when they happen at all) are fair doesn’t mean they are.
The party went to court and successfully argued that they don’t have to run honest primaries. Anyone who suggests primaries as a means to end the entrenched conservative hegemony in democratic party leadership knows better and is gloating.
So your response is that you’d rather watch the country burn in hell than vote democratic to stave it off?
Anyone who suggests primaries as a means to end the entrenched conservative hegemony in democratic party leadership knows better and is gloating.
Fair? When did I say fair? They’re not fair. But, the votes in them are not rigged.
So your response is that you’d rather watch the country burn in hell than vote democratic to stave it off?
All criticism of your shitty worthless republican-lite party does not mean advocacy for voting for the slightly worse party it keeps trying to be.
Fair? When did I say fair? They’re not fair. But, the votes in them are not rigged.
Don’t need to rig the vote if you sue to keep challengers off the ballot and then decide not to hold primaries at all.
All criticism of your shitty worthless republican-lite party does not mean advocacy for voting for the slightly worse party it keeps trying to be.
,yes? that’s literally my issue. It’s advocating to not vote, which is russian propaganda driven and only serves to reduce real ability to fight fascism in favor of grandstanding online as a keyboard warrior.
Don’t need to rig the vote if you sue to keep challengers off the ballot and then decide not to hold primaries at all.
That is not a common practice. It happens, yes. But it’s not common
But if we vote/advocate third parties, or converse in conservative spaces or .ML, .Lemmygrad*, on Lemmy, we’re trolls or shills. 🤮
This is the time for third parties. I get why people were saying not to talk about them during the election but now is the time because it’s obvious that the Dems continue to not have a spine.
Absolutely agreed. And I’m not sure the better alternative to Reddit is a “federated” platform where the mods highest priority seems to delete comments that call the Democrats what they are: nice Nazis.
Blue MAGA
Yep! Lemmy loves to complain about the Democratic party, but as soon as ya mention third-party, you’re banned from everywhere for being a troll. Or Lemmy’s other fav insults: Nazi and Fascist. They’ll even say we’re paid to talk about third parties.
At this point, Lemmy is getting what they deserve. They’ll lost next presidential election to if they don’t wake the fuck up. :)
Lemmy: The time has come for a new third party! One made up of honest working class people, with infinity time and money between elections to campaign starting now. Oh also you need to go from 0% to 51% in one election cycle or just scrap the whole thing.
Yep, exactly this! lmao
When have people (outside isolated trolls) accused 3rd-party advocates of being shills? If the “Tanky Triad” only supported an end to “first-past-the-post” voting, that would be one thing. But when I visit, I’m inundated with propaganda championing fascists who want to ignore reality and bend the population to their will. That’s not liberalism, and it’s certainly not Progressive Politics…
When have people (outside isolated trolls) accused 3rd-party advocates of being shills?
Take a look at some older posts from before the election. It was a fucking witchhunt on third-party advocates. Every single one was accused of being a paid russian shill. Every. Single. One. lol
some older posts
Do you have some examples? Like I said, all I experienced was disingenuous comments.
EDIT: My bad, I thought we were talking about people (plural) advocating against 3rd-party candidates in general. I still haven’t seen that. But yeah, Jill Stein is sus as fuck. You’re allowed to think otherwise, but pointing that out doesn’t make someone a shill.
Just type in “Jill Stein,” or “Green Party” in the search function, and pick c/politics from the months before November. That’ll be enough, because in those threads, even talks of other third parties, were madly downvoted and people were banned left and right. lol
That’s also why the other poster commented on it. Even in this very thread you see a lot of people bitching about third parties. But it’s way more acceptable to talk about it now than it was then. It was fucking crazytown here before the election! lmao
So… Still no sources. Not one…
EDIT: If you don’t think Jill Stein is a Russian asset after reading all the credible allegations, I don’t know what to tell you. Of course you’re allowed your opinion, but that’s still not evidence of people saying 3rd-party candidates in general are bad.
What? Did you even do that?
https://feddit.org/post/2903837
https://feddit.org/post/3522938
https://feddit.org/post/3041220
And that’s just a light start. Those comments were tame. The closer it got to the election, the more rabid people got if they found out u were voting third party.
I know dude, I was there. Back then, term “Russian shill” was used as much as “Nazi” and “Fascist” is now. Even the Dems here will probably admit things were heated. It was crazy how much mistrust and accusations where flying around. Russian shills, propaganda, bots, lots of people were accusing lots of people being those things.
Seriously, just look around at the threads in those time periods, besides the ones I posted. It was fucking crazy. You can even ask the mods here. They even mentioned how difficult it was modding things.
They even locked several posts down because the comments were getting too crazy.
Aside from Jill Fucking Stein, I still don’t see evidence that wide swaths of people were advocating against 3rd parties in general. Yeah, there are definitely credible allegations against her, and both Putin and the GOP absolutely took advantage of her spoiler status in the election. Maybe you think she sat at the table with Putin himself without knowledge of him using her?
When I am accused of such things, I tend to doxx myself as Yevgeny Prigozhin. Claiming to be a primary source within Wagner has its uses.
Ha! I forgot about that dude! He was in the news a lot back in they day!
Of course. It is a closely guarded Russian secret that I escaped by parachute. The mighty Putin went through great effort to fake my death.
That’s how extreme some Lemmy’s were for sure! lol
I get it. I too want this entire administration to burn, but at the same time, Perdue was a sitting Senator. A co-worker. Almost normal compared to Bondi or RFK Jr.
And this isn’t a cabinet member. It’s not like Perdue is going to make any real progress with China on anything.
China isn’t budging on shit.
Democrats reject this guy, a worse candidate is put forward next. Seems like a stupid hill to die on. They’re going to appoint somebody.
Edit: I didn’t know he’d be confirmed anyway. If true, then I agree a Democratic rejection out of principle would have been a better statement.
Let me get this clearly: because if they fight back, maga will be even nastier, so Dems did the right thing to save us from a worse outcome?
Well fuck me, I’ve been at unfair to them. I owe them an apology.
That’s not what I said. There are better ways to fight.
Fight the turly terrible candidate choices, not the ones who you might actually have a chance of working productively with.
Chuck Schumer is abysmal and needs to step down, and he was wrong about the budget. But the essence of his argument has some truth - politics is a two-way street. In the rare case where there is a possibility of cooperation, that sets a better standard and will likely be more effective than endless partisanship.
Fight the turly terrible candidate choices, not the ones who you might actually have a chance of working productively with.
This makes absolutely no sense, why not fight both?
Is there a fight limit you don’t want them to waste on small fries? Or is their energy limited due to exhaustion from all their paid appearances and campaigning tours.
Name one good reason why they shouldn’t be fighting ever single battle!
Why fight when (a) it’s not going to change anything and (b) winning the fight gets you a worse outcome.
If it isn’t going to change anything but there’s a reason to fight on principle, by all means. But fighting for its own sake makes you look stupid and immature.
Fight the turly terrible candidate choices, not the ones who you might actually have a chance of working productively with.
Things centrists never say about progressives. Because centrists only have intentions of working with their republican buddies to accomplish their mutual goals.
I think you’re being understandably but uncessarily cynical for the purposes of this conversation.
I proudly call myself a far-leftist. Even a “woke” one. But victory for the ideals that drive us will not come from endless othering of those who we disagree with. Perfect is the enemy of the good, so the saying goes. I would say it’s now the enemy of even just a little bit better as opposed to so much worse.
With that being said, we should never compromise on expressing what we actually believe. I want universal basic income, guaranteed minimum income according to a livable wage, weath taxes, and much more aggressive income taxation of the 1% and 0.1%. I want universal healthcare, open borders, and end to private prisons. But fuck me if I won’t vote to make what social security we do have just a little bit better.
As politicians and lawmakers, we need to be the bigger party in the room that doesn’t stoop to their level.
I know right now things demand radical defence of democracy, but that doesn’t happen by politicians giving up what little power and platform they might have. They can go to work when they’re not out on the streets with the protestors.
I think you’re being understandably but uncessarily cynical for the purposes of this conversation.
Every time I think I’m too cynical, democrats prove me wrong. They don’t get to come back from supporting a genocide.
I proudly call myself a far-leftist. Even a “woke” one.
But?
But victory for the ideals that drive us will not come from endless othering of those who we disagree with.
Oh yeah. Wouldn’t want to other those people who carry swastika flags and chant “Jews will not replace us” after all, they’re the only demographic that matters to the democratic party, and they’re willing to throw all of us under the bus for a 1% chance at getting a single nazi vote. You’re bus fodder just like me and don’t you forget it. The femtosecond republicans express the slightest displeasure at your existence, you’ll be under the bus with all the disposables you don’t consider worth defending because it might other some contemptible nazi.
With that being said, we should never compromise on expressing what we actually believe.
With every betrayal, democrats converge on expressing what they actually believe.
I want universal basic income, guaranteed minimum income according to a livable wage, weath taxes, and much more aggressive income taxation of the 1% and 0.1%. I want universal healthcare, open borders, and end to private prisons.
There is no major party that does not fight against everything you claim to stand for here.
As politicians and lawmakers, we need to be the bigger party in the room that doesn’t stoop to their level.
We’re dealing with nazis. You don’t win over nazis by appeasement. You don’t win them over with magnanimity. They do not want to parlay. They want you dead.
I know right now things demand radical defence of democracy, but that doesn’t happen by politicians giving up what little power and platform they might have.
Then maybe they should stop giving up whatever power they have every time they have the opportunity to do so.
How would you deal with these Nazis and other fellow Americans who you disagree with? Let’s say you’re the new president and your party controls both houses of government.
Trump is allowing people to be disappeared to El Salvador. Would you do the same to these people you call Nazis? What about the 45 million or so people who voted for this shit?
I agree the political situation sucks. But solutions aren’t easy, and eventually, at the end of the day, we have to be united or there is only war and violence forever.
Cory Booker—New Jersey
Chris Coons—Delaware
Tammy Duckworth—Illinois
John Fetterman—Pennsylvania
Ruben Gallego—Arizona
Maggie Hassan—New Hampshire
Tim Kaine—Virginia
Andy Kim—New Jersey
Angus King—Maine (independent who caucuses with Democrats)
Amy Klobuchar—Minnesota
Gary Peters—Michigan
Jack Reed—Rhode Island
Jacky Rosen—Nevada
Jeanne Shaheen—New Hampshire
Elissa Slotkin—Michigan
Mark Warner—Virginia
shamelessly copied off the article
We’re still counting fetterman as a Democrat? Aight.
Also wasn’t everyone fawning over Booker for the sit in DAYS AGO??
Gallego: We ditched Sinema because of shit like this.
deleted by creator
mods have been deleting my comments that remind people that Biden and the Democrats gleefully committed genocide and lost the election for their refusal to even suggest they’ll stop it.
When will people wake up and realize the Democrats are not on our side, not the lesser evil? They exist to give us an illusion that someone is fighting on our behalf, they exist to pacify us, they exist to allow capitalism to turn us into wage-slaves.
They’ll take a knee with us, they’ll give record breaking speeches, they’ll march with us in the peaceful phases, they’ll be on the front line even. They’ll hold rallies and raise incredible amounts to “flight fascism”, and then they’ll step in line and vote to keep the wheel turning RIGHT.
mods have been deleting my comments that remind people that Biden and the Democrats gleefully committed genocide and lost the election for their refusal to even suggest they’ll stop it.
Why they are so threatened by AOC and Sanders, and the calls for the old guard to GTFO
I fully expect the DNC to launch a bigger underhanded attack against the both of them than the Republicans do.
Why they are so threatened by AOC and Sanders, and the calls for the old guard to GTFO
Both Sanders and AOC both support Israel. The progressive base may like them better than “the old guard” but they’re not exactly in love with these two. It’s a begrudging vote, not a happy one.
So a lesser evil?
I mean, support for genocide is wholly evil, I don’t care what your other policies are. lol Evil is evil lil bro. There’s no such thing as a lesser degree of evil.
It would be the same if like, Donald Trump was a perfect candidate, but he’s also a sexual predator. That should immediately disqualify him, otherwise you’re supporting that behavior.
Bernie and AOC most closely align with my political viewpoints, but they’re also supporting genocide… If I support them, then I’m also supporting genocide. Is what it is.
If that pisses you off, then maybe talk to Bernie and/or AOC about their stance on Israel.
Yes. There are several recent instances where he’s “slamming” Israel. And then 3 decades where they’re best friends, including up to the end of 2024…
Hasn’t Sanders opposed Israeli military policy pretty publicly, including voting to block arms sales? [1] [2]
Didn’t AOC accuse Israel of committing genocide on the house floor? [3]
In what way do they support Israel? It hasn’t been my impression that they support genocide or American culpability in it.
They’ve only very recently begun to change their public opinion on it. Last year this time Bernie was catching heat for refusing to support a permanent ceasefire;
Senator Bernie Sanders’s refusal to call for a permanent cease-fire between Israel and Hamas has put him at odds with many of the same progressives […] ^1
Additionally, this is AOCs stance on Israel: https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/media/press-releases/ocasio-cortez-statement-first-anniversary-october-7th
As you can see, she strongly condemns Hamas, which is great. She strongly condemns Israel, and Netanyahu, which is great. And I totally agree with the entire statement all the way down until the last paragraph;
None of this was inevitable. And it can still be stopped. Hamas, Israel, and Hezbollah should agree to a lasting ceasefire in Gaza and Lebanon.
Hamas is a terrorist organization which was quite literally created by Israel by their systematic abuse of an entire group of people. There’s nothing about this entire situation that wasn’t inevitable. You can’t abuse a people for decades, encroach on their lives, livelihood, murder them, strongly police them, continually treat them like shit and sub-human and expect them not to retaliate. Much like the US is directly responsible for the situations leading to terrorist attacks against the US, Israel is also directly responsible for Hamas.
Even aside from all of this, her views on Israel again, just like Sanders are relatively new. Just last year she was about to be censured by other party members for being too soft on Israel ^1.
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. The opposite of love is not hate, it’s indifference.” – Elie Wiesel
So yeah, it’s great that they’re just now coming around to the plight of Gaza and the Palestinians it’s not like they actually believe it. It’s all politically motivated. They’re beginning to understand that unless they condemn Israel they won’t be elected–which is pretty fucked up IMO.
Speakin’ the truth! You have my upvote
And just to be clear, you think The Grifter Party cares about you? Sorry, Green - the Green party.
Sometimes I get their name and their actions mixed up.
Democrats are not on our side, not the lesser evil?
So what are you going to do? Not vote?
Them: Option A is evil Nazis, option B is nice Nazis.
You: So what are you going to do? Not vote?
Those are not the options.
It’s time for the US to form a centrist party, instead of people having to choose between far right, right, and far left.
The dems are the centrists. We need an actual left party.
Only with the extreme Overton shift in the US. Democrats may be more progressive than Republicans, but that’s really not saying much. Most actual Democrat policy is right of center, to the frustration of representatives like Sanders and AOC.
Still, what the USA needs is a left party, not a centrist party.
The Socialist party already exists?
Yep, and I was happy to vote for them. And will continue to do so. I have no clue why Lemmy refuses to. Practically everything the Socialist party stands for is what Lemmy says is what’s needed.
Yet come election time, Lemmy was all, “Vote Dems or you’re a traitor!”
Then sported a shocked pikachu face when they lost. lol
The Democrats never actually opposed fascism, they just invoked it because they knew it was unpopular. The problem of the Democrats is that you can’t constantly run on things you have no intention of following through on, without having voters stop believing you eventually.
The Democrats never actually opposed fascism, they just invoked it because they knew it was unpopular.
Yep, and Lemmy totally fell for it. Then turned around and shunned the people who refused to fall for it.
Lemmy is getting what they deserve for blindly worshiping the Democratic Party.
Third-party is the way to be free from this nonsense!
Including Cory Booker… 🤷♂️ 🙄
Was everything he did recently just as performative as with MAGAts??
Way to put up roadblocks and speedbumps when it really counts Dems… Feckless Fucks. 🖕 🖕
so blocking the appointment of the U.S. ambassador to China, in a vote they can’t win looking at the numbers, helps the revolution how?
Because its not about winning, its about taking a stand.
You don’t give NAZI TRAITORS a single vote of support for ANYTHING. They are Nazis, they are the most corrupt and treasonous administration in American history, and any support is collaboration, even a single vote.
and how far should it be taken? shut down the government? occupy buildings?
All of that and more.
how will you vote?
Way more
how will you vote
I’m vote just fine because I don’t live in a shithole country.
But Jesus Christ- Imagine being American and thinking voting was going to save you in 2025
It gets taken as far as required to crush MAGA, bring their treasonous, corrupt leaders to justice, and purge MAGA from our government, society, and the world.
MAGA is literally the same as the German Nazis of the 30s and 40s, and they will be operating death camps, just like their heros. They are already building a camp in Guantanamo Bay to hold 30,000 people, out of the sight of the media and the courts. They’ll send foreigners to El Salvador, but they’ll send Americans to Gitmo.
Are we supposed to wait until they have killed millions, and have people say “Gee, why didn’t someone stop them before it got that far?”
how will you vote?
Imagine being a liberal right now lmfao You’re pissed at EVERYTHING and yelling at your allies while the people you’re telling them to vote for are supporting the very thing making you furious.
Fuckin’ awesome.
If we all showed up to vote blue then thwre would be no Trump appointments to be mad at.
All that voting Blue did in the past two decades was kicking the can down the road, while blocking aerious efforts to form a political power willing to bring the can back up the road.
Trump isn’t an anomaly. Trump is the symptom of a broken system that was deliberately broken further and further with bipartisan support. And we still see the Democrats staying at breaking things further and helping Trump instead of forming a proper opposition.
They still rather fight progressives like AOC and Sanders than fighting Trump.
There haven’t been 60 Democrat senators since 1979, haven’t been more than 50 in over 10 years. The most productive congress in the last 20 years was when the DNC plus caucusing IND had supermajority for only 72 days, and it gave us medicaid expansion, was a single IND vote away from Public Option.
Alright at this point we should just clean house everyone in executive, Congress and Judiciary needs to go
Or, hear me out, make sure people like Trump always lose in the future so they can’t initiate any appointments ever again.
Then maybe biden should have hired an AG who was interested in pursuing justice, instead of dragging things out so biden could run as second worst to trump again.
One day people are going to realize this is just theatre. It’s a club with predetermined decisions, similar to WWE. None of them give a fuck about you.
People realized it over a decade ago.
So what shall we do about it?
Vote blue so much that they have to keep passing progressive reform like the always do when blue wins. They made the rules, all we need to do is make them play by them.
Vote blue so much that they have to keep passing progressive reform like the always do when blue wins.
If this is how you characterize the biden administration, you’re expecting people to be too easily content.
