The Verge
oh boy, here we go.
I’ve got my swiss army screwdriver ready.
Lemmy sure is doing a lot of the marketing work for the Steam machines I see.
Lots of Linux and gaming enthusiasts in the platform. Still better of the latest pedotrump news.
is it ambitious? is that what you would call it
I think so. It’s trying to compete with Microsoft and Sony consoles in much the same way that Steam Deck competed with the Switch. Taking on the largest segment of gaming outside mobile is pretty ambitious. It seems to be launching along with a new VR headset and a new controller, so they seem to be targeting high volume sales for the living room gaming market.
The hardware isn’t the ambitious part, the target market is.
Absolutely! The opinions you see on platforms like Lemmy or Reddit don’t necessarily reflect the views of the actual target market. Many of those users are casual gamers. These are people who own a phone and an Xbox, and that’s the extent of their gaming experience.
That market is HUGE. Valve is offering accessibility, convenience, and comparable (to consoles) performance without the complexity of PC gaming. I think it’s a fantastic move, and I’m genuinely excited to see it succeed. I have long wanted to play with more of my work friends who fall into this category.
There is something else you forgot, Steam has a library with thousands of games. More games than most console’s entire libraries combined.
Is it a console? Isn’t it a tiny prebuilt?
Frankly, the Xbox One and the PS4 marked those vendors transition to ‘tiny prebuilts’, by the standards one might call this a ‘tiny prebuilt’.
One could fairly argue that Switch is “just a gaming tablet/phone”
I mean… What is a console, but a prebuilt running custom firmware and manufacturer’s OS? You can literally install Linux on a jailbroken PS5. Old consoles were obviously bespoke pieces of hardware that wouldn’t match any computer OS… But modern consoles are closer to prebuilt PCs than they are to old consoles.
It’s meant to be used with a TV, just like a console is. It’s targeting the console crowd, to try and capture that wing of the market and bring the console players into the PC ecosystem. It’s also trying to give PC players the flexibility to play in their living room, instead of at a computer desk.
That last part is primarily what I use my Steam Deck for right now. And it’s why I’m excited to potentially have something a little more powerful than the Steam Deck for my TV. My partner started to resent my gaming habits. After some discussions, we figured out that it was because they couldn’t cuddle me when I was at my computer desk. They missed the physical snuggle time that we got on the couch. So I got a Steam Deck, and made a point of shifting my gaming habits to be able to play more games on the couch.
Suddenly, the complaints about my gaming dried up. Because they could snuggle up next to me and read a book or scroll on TikTok while I played, which is all they really wanted. I’m still able to play my game to de-stress after work, they get their physical touch time, and we’re both happy. The only real change was in what kinds of games I played, because I had to shift more towards controller-based games instead of Keyboard+Mouse games. So fewer shooters, more hack-n-slash type stuff. But I enjoy playing both, so I just wait until after they go to bed to play the KB+M games at my desk.
And thus far, my only real complaint about the setup has been that the Steam Deck has started to struggle to run newer games. It was never meant to be a super high powered top-of-the-line device. The first consideration was portability, which meant they had to make some concessions on processing power in order to get an acceptable battery life. But with a standalone TV console, that isn’t really a big factor. So the standalone console can be much more powerful, because it’s not needing to take things like battery power consumption into account.
Yes, just like the Steam Deck, it’s a pre-built that functions like a console and can do other desktop stuff too.
Yes.
I didn’t even read all that. But I’ll trust your judgment. 👍
Sorry for being so wordy. ;)
sometimes i’m just lazy 🤗
Aren’t all consoles?
All is console, console is all.
I was hesitant about upgrading my ancient computer because I didn’t want to spend $1,200 - $2000 on a new setup. This looks like a great option.
This isn’t going to be a high end machine, it’s probably competitive with the PS5, more or less.
You didn’t mention what you have, but you could probably get a decent upgrade competitive with this for well under $1200. The GPU seems to be about an RX 7600 ($250-260), the CPU is about a 7600 ($190), motherboard is $170, and 16GB RAM is $120. So $700-800 mandatory, plus whatever you need to replace from your current rig, and the result should be a bit faster than the Steam Machine. That’s probably a bit more than the Steam Machine, but it’s upgradeable, whereas the Steam Machine won’t be.
Lol, my dumb computer is running DDR3 / no TPM, it’s super old. I have been waiting for video cards to get better/cheaper. I’m totally down with not the fastest. If it plays 90% of my games, costs less than $600. I just read that it’s six times more powerful than the Steam Deck. The Steam Deck can run Cyberpunk 2077, so this will do just fine. Another thing that I really like is that Valve is verifying games for their hardware. The games it can’t run, I guess I won’t play. I’m sold!
What they posted is replacing almost all the internals. Hard drives should be fine but motherboard, CPU, RAM, and GPU, thats all of it.
Hopefully you have a case rather than a prebuilt, but you can get nice new cases for 50 ish brand new right now.
It looks cool, but to me, if it’s not being offered for around $500, then it’s just a pc replacement in my eyes. From the questions he asked, it definitely seems like it’s going to cost more than $800.
Good timing though, get your system out first before the next generation starts releasing at the end of next year or 2027. From what I have seen, the first to release generally does the best.
My problem seems to be how much it talks about the ps5. It’s been 5 years, so of course, better hardware can fit into smaller space. My problem with that is generally any hardware that compacts it this much will run into heating issues a few years into owning it so I would absolutely prefer the bigger ps5 anyday which has shown no issues so far. Also, they were comparing it to the ps5 alot which is a 5 year old system. I would hope it does significantly better!
I also would like to know more about the OS. Is it just the steam deck OS slapped on this, or is it customized more? I would want/hope they deliver the things that a console offers and more that make it more convenient than just a PC.
Overall, I am interested in this, but if it really does costs as much as I think it will, I am not sure who this will ultimately be marketed to, and I could be wrong, but I doubt it will sell enough for them to say it was a success lets make more. They do have the money to throw at it though, so I guess that was enough for them to take a stab at it after the success of the steam deck.
it’s not a console
It sort of is… I collect consoles, I have everything from the 2600 to PS3/Wii/360. I quit after that because the XBone and PS4 were just horrible shitty PCs that ran games like garbage and had insane load times. I like the newest XBox and PS5, but I’m done collecting consoles forever because they’re just locked down PCs now. The Steam Machine is a console for computer game players with MUCH LESS locked down OS than a PlayStation or XBox and I love that idea very much. I have four high-end computers for games at my house (maybe five, one is old but still works great with linux) and I would still consider a Steam Machine in my house as another first computer… but it does really taste like a console (in a good way)
As much work as the Verge article says they put into cooling, I’m not too worried about heat issues
While the main cooling system is important, the thermal interface material they pick is also a big deal with systems intended to not be user serviced and with long lasting lifetimes like consoles… It honestly depends a lot on what TIM they decided to go with. Traditional thermal pastes are cheap but almost always dry out after just a few years causing much higher temps. Liquid metal is great, but more expensive and you must design it right, vertical orientation can cause leakage if not properly designed (some laptops end up having issues because of this). Phase change material is probably the optimal middle ground for ease of installation, and simplified design.
Watch the gamer nexus video if you want more info on the cooling. Iirc they use phase change TIM for the CPU and paste for the GPU.
They also talk about how they designed the case to avoid it being choked
The skin community is going to be all over the swappable panels like butter on hot corn.
Edit That didn’t take long…
The controller would’ve been an instant buy for me if it had asymmetric sticks but I’ll wait for it to come out and give it a try before I make a decision.
I’m down to buy the new controller. I have a Steam Deck and it’s very comfortable to hold, other than the weight. This thing is basically the Deck controls without the screen and a bunch of the weight.
Plus, I’ve personally found the gyro, trackpads, and back buttons to be extremely useful for games that don’t have controller support, or for simply easier use of existing buttons (like putting L3/R3 on back buttons). I’m really looking forward to this, looks way better than the 2015 Steam Controller.
Lastly, that charging connector / wireless adapter all-in-one combo is just nice.
My only concern would be haptics. This really needs to have good rumble motors, and not just trackpad haptics like the deck. The pad haptics are good for subtle effects, but near useless for conveying actual heavy vibration, explosions, stuff like that. Sounds like they accounted for this though:
High definition rumble
Steam Controller’s powerful motors are capable of handling complex waveforms for immersive, accurate haptics.
That sounds closer to something like the PS5 DualSense enhanced haptics, and if so, I’m here for it.
Yeah, Sony really nailed the haptics with the PS5 controller. The high-fidelity motors feel nice while still having punch, and the adaptable triggers give a nice satisfying squeeze when game designers use it properly.
The newer God of War games had a few good examples, with the adaptable triggers getting harder on more “difficult” stuff. If Kratos was using a lot of strength for some quick time event, the triggers got harder to pull. It was a nice touch that helped add immersion and suspense to a game that was already very visceral. When Kratos cleaved into an enemy during a kill animation, feeling the trigger relax afterwards was a nice satisfying capstone to the “you just beat the crap out of this enemy” animation.
No Man’s sky supports the adaptive triggers on PC (Steam) and when they are used, it really does make a little difference! I just always feel like it’s going to break the triggers for some reason. I don’t trust Sony, so that may be why. lol
My experience with the Steam Deck and the Index controllers are the only thing keeping me from writing it off my mind all together. I have faith in Valve’s team when it comes to ergonomics so I hope they surprise me.
That said, I hope they improved on the Steam Deck because the face buttons on the Deck are so close to the edge that it’s challenging to do quick presses for games like rhythm games.
It’s insane. Seemingly everyone but Sony figured out decades ago it’s a terrible idea, and Valve does it anyway.
At least it has concave sticks, which weren’t on PlayStation until 2013.
That’s your preference though. I prefer Sony’s symmetrical sticks. It’s ok to have your preference, no need to state that it’s the objectively better one.
I actually prefer Sony’s symmetrical design, but that’s probably because the PS1 was the first console I owned as a kid. I played other consoles like the NES/SNES/N64/Saturn/DreamCast at friends’ houses, but the PS1 was the first console that was truly mine. And I went straight from the PS1 to the PS2 in my early teens. The DualShock controller was the one I grew up playing the most, so it’s the one I’m most familiar with using. The Xbox 360 generation definitely tends to prefer asymmetry though, which is really just a matter of preference.
The Xbox was my first, and I prefer the asymmetric design. However, the controller I use on my PC is a DS4 and it’s fine, and I use it because it had better Linux support at the time.
But the DualShock doesn’t have asymmetric sticks?
Exactly. Sony insists on having symmetrical sticks, even though Xbox figured out asymmetric was better back in 2001. Every third party controller has asymmetric switches. Even Nintendo Pro controllers do. Why did Valve choose the objectively worse solution?
even though Xbox figured out asymmetric was better back in 2001
MS did the asymmetric layout to avoid patents that existed on previous Sony controllers… they weren’t trying to innovate or anything like that
Now I understand. But how are symmetrical sticks ojectively worse? Valve’s design team built dozens of prototypes for the first controller, they probably did the same for the second one and still opted for symmetrical sticks.
I find asymmetrical sticks more comfortable to use. The natural position of my thumbs is in the top corners of the controller. Since the D-pad is rarely used, the left thumb stays in that sweet spot and the right jumps between the stick and the buttons.
I use a DS4 on my desktop, an Xbox 360 controller on my retropie box, and a Nintendo Pro controller on my Switch, and the DS4 is way less comfy than the other two. I only use the DS4 because it had better compatibility with Linux and other features (mostly gyro) when I shopped for one when I moved the Xbox controller to another room.
I’ve considered buying the DS5, but would much rather wait for something better, like a new Xbox controller with a gyro.
I use a Steamdeck and a 360 gamepad and I have no strong opinion on which is more comfy while using a standard layout.
The outermost spot is easier to reach with the thumbs. The most used elements of the controller are face buttons and the left stick. Having the left stick in the “secondary” position makes no sense.
Have you used a steam controller?
The most effective way I found to use it was to use the left stick with the track pad, which is, as you mentioned, asymmetric.
The symmetry is just reversed from the Xbox controller if you use it this way. Which is more than likely the intended way to use it.
I have a Steam Controller and could never get used to it. I don’t like the track pad D-pad on the left, since it’s uncomfortable to use for camera control or as a D-pad, it’s just awkward. The right one is okay, but in a weird spot, since it’s annoying to jump all the way down to the buttons.
The new one looks a little better, but I’d still prefer the left stick to be higher (maybe seap with the D-pad?). I love the Steam Deck, so maybe in practice this is fine.
I’m sure the team gathered some proof in usability and ergonomy tests before deciding on an option. After all, the controller needs to adapt to many possible layouts, not just for right-handed avatar movement.
I can’t stand asymmetric sticks. The 8bitdo pro2 is the best controller ive found right now, but this new steam controller looks awesome.
It’s possible placing the thumb sticks in some slightly different way helps to avoid patent issues.
That was my feeling too. That PS/Wii U scheme feels so uncomfortable to me. Like over-extending your left thumb which I use much more than my right thumb on the analog stick.
But I realized I’m semi used to it on my Steam Deck and it feels okay. If I could, I would switch it out, though.
I’m excited but i won’t accept it until I see the price. If it turns out good this would be a stark upgrade to my PC, but it has to be comparable in price.
Archived link: https://archive.ph/ydtw4
The specs do not impress me for a company that prides itself for being technologically creative. The Steam Deck was a massive success for what they were able to do with that. But this? This is like a glorified Raspberry Pi if it was done by Valve.
Even if you could expand the RAM and storage, everything else is just sitting there waiting to be obsolete in a couple years. I just don’t get who they’re trying to make this for. You can easily build a PC with a reasonable budget that could easily tackle things this cube probably couldn’t.
Individuals who game, are more likely going to look at this wanting all of the latest AAA games to work and I don’t see this cube doing the workload for long. And for the projected price point, it definitely won’t be worth the price.
Even if you could expand the RAM and storage,
You can.
everything else is just sitting there waiting to be obsolete in a couple years.
That’s what some people said about the Steam Deck. More than a couple of years later, it is still popular; clearly not obsolete.
I just don’t get who they’re trying to make this for. You can easily build a PC with a reasonable budget that could easily tackle things this cube probably couldn’t.
I think you’re overlooking the fact that most gamers have different skills and priorities than yours. Not everyone would find it easy to build a computer at all, let alone build a quiet and compact one with well-matched components, a tuned and convenient OS, and good support.
This device is probably not a good fit for you. It probably is a good fit for many people outside of gaming PC enthusiast circles. Especially now that Valve has established its hardware as a well-defined platform for game developers to support.
everything else is just sitting there waiting to be obsolete in a couple years
a bit out from the cutting edge, sure, but obsolete? This aint the 90s or the Aughts any more.
A machine put together 10 years ago will still run most things fine. Not at the fanciest settings, but fine. This is essentially the same criticism PC gaming has been lobbing at consoles for years, and now we have essentially a PC masquerading it’s way into the console wing of the market – of course the same criticism still apply! It’s not incredibly beefy because it doesn’t need to be. Different audience, different requirements.
It’s supposed to be a console. You connect it to your TV and it more or less just works. Like a PS5 or Series X, except it has more games. The entire thing consumes about half the power of just my low-end graphics card from a few years ago (3060 ti). These CPUs also aren’t available as socketed versions, nor would it be a good idea because then a user might use a chip that generates too much heat compared to the design here.
This ISN’T meant to compete with a PC. If you already have a gaming PC, you don’t want a Steam Machine. If you have a current gen console, you probably don’t want a Steam Machine.
There’s a lot of speculation as to the price. If any of the guesses from various outlets end up being true, it could be less than $500 and potentially less than $400, while there have been hints at the next generation of Xbox costing $1000. But this is all speculation.
Basically, it’s a way to get into gaming with a console-like experience, a low price, and the ability to keep your game library when you evolve into a “real” PC gamer. Honestly, if my kid was old enough to get into gaming, I’d consider one. Genius move from Valve targeting specifically a market previously untapped by them - not us folks who already buy our games on Steam.
Every device they make is called a steam machine… And then gets cancelled. They’ve all blurred together at this point
The only thing ever called a Steam Machine before was the PC architecture they tried to push over a decade ago that was more or less just cheaper PCs of various builds that all ran on the original SteamOS. None of them were made or sold by Valve itself.
The only other steam hardware that was cancelled was the Link; because you can do what it did through an app without the need for specialized hardware now.
And while the Link hardware was cancelled, they still put out updates for it. I think the last update was only a month or two ago.
Steam Controller 1 also got cancelled but they’re still shipping updates and showing that device too.
Yeah, I really wanted to like my Link, but it was plagued by random FPS lag spikes that made it unplayable. Sometimes a game running at a perfect 60FPS on my PC would just suddenly drop to like 2-3FPS on the Link for a minute or more. Frame times were suddenly measured in hundreds of milliseconds.
In my router and on my PC’s traffic data, I could see my PC was still sending the same amount of data to the Link. And on the Link’s detailed stats, I could see it was receiving the data. So everything was sending and receiving just fine. But the FPS would just suddenly tank for no discernible reason.
It seemed to get worse over time, (maybe as the hardware aged) and it made the Link completely unusable after a while. And the only real response I ever got from Steam about it was “have you tried updating the firmware on your Link? Or try using the app on your TV instead.” Notably, my TV at the time didn’t have the Link app available.
I’ve considered looking into whether or not I can flash something new onto the Link, to at least repurpose it into something else. I have like three of the damned things knocking around in a box, because my first one worked great and I got a few more. Then they slowly started getting those FPS drops, so I quit using them. Maybe a Bluetooth hub for Home Assistant? Or I could try to use it in a project like a Raspberry Pi.
I hope this succeeds, but personally I’d rather have a less powerful machine at a more affordable price point.
Do… we know the price point yet?
The article says:
When I listen to my interview audio, I find an additional hint from Griffais: “We intend for it to be positioned closer to the entry level of the PC space, but to be very competitive with a PC you could build yourself from parts.”
Poking around the web, I find I could probably assemble a computer with this performance for $800, not including labor. But it could easily consume half the room under my TV. A compact system with a similar GPU can cost $1,000 without storage, memory, operating system, or a gamepad.
Which makes it reasonable to assume it’s gonna be at least within that price range. And that is personally way too much for me.
I would guess lower than 800 for the base model. The steam deck entry price is low and they probably will try to have the machine affordable. They know no PC gamer that can build their own PC will buy it if it’s not competitive.
Since they’re OEM integrating parts, I can guess around 550-650 for the base model but that will also depend on the US tariffs that week.Are they even trying to woo the PC gamer crowd? Based on nothing but vibes, I doubt they’ll have anything to offer them
Well, their customers are PC gamers so it makes sense to target them. Not all gamers build their PC themselves (I’d say most don’t as I have built most of my friends pc). Having a plug and play solution, without risk of hardware/driver/software issues, can be attractive to some. The market for these is not hardcore gamers, but couch gaming.
But if the hardware is more expensive than a pre-built, no one will buy it.
They said in interviews that some steam deck users primarily use it docked to a TV, and that showed them there is a market for such devices.
