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My grandpa bought a 1984 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royale 25 years ago. He kept it up, and now it’s mine. It was a top trim luxury car when it was new, and it has screws exposed on things like the A pillars. My 1993 Subaru Loyale also has exposed screws everywhere. It’s so fucking nice, as compared to my newer vehicles where I break 17 plastic tabs off trying to remove the A pillar trim. It’s asinine, exposed screws look dope.
Its corner-cutting to save assembly costs. Plastic tabs take sub-seconds to whack into place vs screws which take 20+ seconds each.
Theyre saving ~$100 on your car assembly process and the end result is you have a vastly more annoying car to work on and repair for its entire lifetime. Its beyond annoying.
But they pass the $100 saving onto the consumer, right?
….right?
What happened to screws? Why is everything frikin glued together???
waterproofing and cost savings
Water proofing is a good reason though, I want and need my devices water proof
However, at least there are phones that are water proof and still let you exchange the battery
Cheaper manufacturing costs with the added “benefit” of making it hard to repair so users buy another one if it breaks
Nice. A return to sanity.
someone needs to tell the EU to require all devices to be serviceable with screws….
That’s what they did with onboard usb C drives. New computers now have screwed in USB C ports in case they need to be replaced.
Wasn’t that actually on the cards at one point?
i think so
Love this.
The more I’m hearing about the Pebble Time 2, the more I’m liking it and looking forward to my delivery.
But fuck the 30 day warranty. Stuff sold in the UK is usually 6 years of cover (albeit only 5 for Scotland). 30 days is actually pathetic.
30 to 90 days is standard for a defects in workmanship and materials warranty, which is only there to cover something not working right because it came faulty from the factory. It’s basically one step up from an “as-is” sale just so you can request a replacement if it’s dead on arrival.
It is bullshit and straight up illegal in the EU, but as the watches are shipped straight from the Chinese factory and sold by a US based company, it might technically be allowed? The legalese is very confusing when I tried to figure it out - if a company sells something directly to an EU customer, they are supposed to follow EU laws to a point.
If they knowingly sell to EU customers, then EU law applies. 2 year warranty, and burden of proof on the seller for defects, not the buyer.
As I said, I couldn’t find any source that said that. In fact, the best I could find said quite the opposite:
Do I have the same rights if I buy something online from a non-EU website as from an EU-based business?
If you buy the goods from a non-EU website, your EU consumer rights don’t automatically apply. If something goes wrong with an item or you wish to return it, it may be more difficult to get the issue resolved. Check the seller’s website for terms and conditions. -https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees/faq/index_en.htmAnd overall it was “may this” and “possibly that”, nowhere could I find a definite “You are entitled to a 2-year warranty” or “you are not”.
That’s a concern for me as well, in Germany every new Product has to come with basically a 2 year warranty. 30 days is nothing.
Some devices are exempt (i.e. smart watches)
Really? Never heard of that, why would smart watches be exempt?
This is sold by the same guy that created Pebble and then sold and killed it screwing the entire community, right? And it’s the same guy that later sold messaging app based on breaking e2e encryption that worked for like a week before being killed by Apple? Do I remember this correctly? I think I will pass, even with screws.
Ran out of money, went belly up, and sold the software assets to Fitbit so they could refund all the Kickstarter orders they couldn’t fulfill, that guy.
Difference is that this time he is doing the watches with a 5 man team, not a bloated 100+ employee company with investors breathing down their necks, and the software is fully open source. Even released the Pebble 2 Duo hardware designs as a reference for others wanting to make a PebbleOS watch.
I was a backer of the first version of the Pebble, and by the time mine came in they had released a newer, better, cheaper version which made mine feel a lot less cool. Doubt I would buy one again no matter what they did.
Same guy. This time the whole thing is open source though, even the hardware. So that’s insurance for what it’s worth.
So it’s best to wait for some other manufacturer to show up. If no one else is able to setup the manufacturing process it’s still up to this one guy to keep making them or sell and kill it again.
It is almost always best to ‘wait and see’ for most things.
But of course if everyone did that - it would never have taken off in the first place.
That’s the issue. It’s why I’ve learned that when I can afford it and I reasonably believe this firm or project should exist, and it has a decent chance not to fall flat, I end up buying in. It’s literally upfront investment in the thing. I’m still salty for not backing the Ubuntu Phone back in 2012 or so. I looked at it as another phone compared to what’s available on the market and how the price stacks up for the features. That’s very much the wrong way to do it. A part of the value it provides is the existence of the project and the labour dedicated to it. In the case of the new Pebble, I’m backing it despite Eric, and because it’s fully open source and that’s something I want to exist. A fully open alternative in the sea of proprietary wearable crap.
Those gonna get jam packed FULL of dead skin and gunk within days.
Watches, generally speaking, have a twist off back plate for that exact reason. And smart watches tend to add glue because it is more reliable than rubber gaskets for water resistance (and because it means you need to contact Apple for replacement parts…).
Its similar to the issue with screws in general. EVERYONE hates flat head screws. People who don’t know that they come in different sizes hates phillips. Everyone LOVES torx…
Until you have something that is exposed to dirt and debris on the regular. And suddenly you are digging the gunk out of those fancy heads by hand while they are still installed. Versus a quick scraping and using the god awful flathead.
Doesn’t a little solvent and some gentle brushing usually clear this issue up?
The benefits for simple access through simple mechanisms, for me, is worth this bit of work.
But everyone clearly has different requirements. 🤷♂️
Go look at how watches are actually disassembled.
You basically need something to twist it off (magnet, friction, a dedicated tool, or honestly just two properly sized prybars) and then you are set.
This is just yet another case of a tech company “disrupting” because they can’t be bothered to look at what the actual state of the art is and realize there is no point.
I understand, and don’t have any of those tools to hand.
It sounds like this is not a watch for you.
They just like complaining
That, or the watchmakers of old didn’t have to worry about wiring actuators, speakers, and heart rate monitors on the back plate. Or is that against nature and shouldn’t be done in the first place anyway?
For what it’s worth, my F91W has Philips screws on the back plate exactly like this and I never had a problem, and I’ve taken it apart more than a few times (it’s a Sensor Watch!)
There are lots of watches with screws on the back, like the Casio F91
I love my Casio for exercising and hiking and the like.
Casios are, by and large, disposable items. They are not meant to be serviced. They are meant to be replaced. And there are countless stories of Casio putting a LOT of threadlock on those screws for that reason. For some you can get aroudn that to swap a battery or replace a lug but the “preferred” method is to send it to Casio and, if it is under warranty, they basically just send you a new one instead.
And the higher end Casios have twisting backplates that ARE meant to be repaired/maintained have the same twisting backplates as the rest.
I collect Casios. Most get into my hands with dead batteries. Never had issues fixing them up, so I’m not sure what you mean by “disposable”. All standard screws, pins, etc. ?
I break mine. Surely everyone else is equally unskilled…
I’ve got a Timex Expedition that I’ve had since high school. That means I bought it some time during the early Triassic. Its stainless steel backplate is held on with four Phillips screws and I have never in many decades had any problems undoing them when I need to replace the battery every six years or so. It remains resolutely waterproof. I know this because it lives outside rather frequently: at the moment I have it stuck to the gauge cluster on one of my motorcycles with Velcro.
I have a Garmin Fenix 7s. This watch also has torx screws on the back. I wear it day and night for 3-4 years now, even when working in the garden etc. and the screw heads are completely clean. So I don’t think it’s an issue.
Fenix 6 and I’ve never not been able to clean the little bit of dead skin that ends up in the screws with the tip of a pine needle or an unfolded paperclip.
I feels like all these is really non-issue for dailly user, you’re not gonna open the stuff up every week, most likely you’re gonna need to do it once in a year or two to change some part. If you have any skill repairing stuff, cleaning it up is just a matter of having a toothbrush and some toothpick to clean up the gunk before doing the work, and you will already own a set of driver.
And smart watches tend to add glue because it is more reliable than rubber gaskets for water resistance
Debatable. Some car’s waterpump rely on rubber o-ring to seal up the cooling system, and those run at around 12/16psi and in high heat constantly while car is in working condition, and it can last for years before it leak. Rubber o ring also played an important role in sealing International Space Station. It’s the quality of the rubber o ring that is important, it can easily pass ipx7 or even ipx8 rating if the casing is properly designed, and lasted longer than the battery would if quality o-ring is used. My guess is glue is often used because it’s cheaper, as you can apply it in any shape you wanted, instead of having to manufacture a shape that fit the use case.
The ISS (and most engines) also kind of need to be field/garage maintainable. Having to transport a maneuvering thruster back to JPL every few years is obviously a no go.
But also? O-rings (and many kinds of press fits and gaskets) ARE more “single use” than not. That… almost never happens.
Its similar to those wax rings for toilets. Anyone who has ever had to remove/replace a toilet will tell you: Get the actual wax rings because ANY kind of leakage is just hell. But… anyone who has ever actually had to install/replace a toilet will tell you to spend like 5x as much (so… 20 bucks instead of 4) for one of those rubber+wax rings. Technically that is ALSO single use/attempt only but… you actually get a few tries before you need to replace it and find a new helper. You’re going to regret it in 5-10 years when you realize the seal wasn’t great and that smell that wouldn’t go away is a slow leak of piss and shit gas but… it took you five minutes instead of fifty as you kept having to lift the toilet back up to replace the ring.
I feels like all these is really non-issue for dailly user, you’re not gonna open the stuff up every week, most likely you’re gonna need to do it once in a year or two to change some part. If you have any skill repairing stuff, cleaning it up is just a matter of having a toothbrush and some toothpick to clean up the gunk before doing the work, and you will already own a set of driver.
My issue is that it just doesn’t make any sense from an engineering perspective.
Yes, the vast majority of owners will never open their watches up. Hell, they will buy a new smartwatch LONG before they would need to. Like most “right to repair” style topics, we are really talking a very small subset of power users and repair shops.
But what does this get you over the industry/artisan standard? You need one less tool… except now you need a toothpick/brush to properly clean those screw heads. Arguably you always needed one since you SHOULD be deep cleaning your watch before any maintenance, but you technically don’t need one to remove a backplate. And while you probably COULD unscrew without cleaning, you are drastically increasing the likelihood of deforming the screw head and/or outright stripping it.
At best it is a sidegrade. But just look at some of the more… reddit-y responses to this. It is marketing influenced design. People think “screws? I can fix that!” and want to Believe in it.
And, generally speaking, I REALLY dislike stuff like this because it inevitably leads to “enshittification” where things get worse for everyone.
True, but it shouldn’t be a huge deal to clean them up once every few years.
Everyone hates Japanese Philips screws until they learn there’s Japanese Philips screw drivers. Decades of stripped motorcycle screws because the angle is different.
I think it depends on screw design. GShock also have screws and they just don’t get dirty enough that you couldn’t unscrew them.
bring back screwsYep, torx or allen (around 1mm it’s just as good).
ECX?
Soldered in battery still…
At this size battery connectors add way too much bulk.
I mean you see ribbon connector right there for the daughterboard, but yeah, maybe it’s too bulky for the current case design.
How much current does that thin ribbon cable carry? Battery connectors need to be more robust.
A smart watch doesn’t require very much current. A ribbon cable should be more than sufficient for a device that can last days on a 185mAh battery. Especially since a ribbon cable is already delivering most of the power to the device’s main board.
But I agree that a soldered on battery isn’t a big deal.
Should still be able to carry 1 amp, shouldn’t it?
I’ll change 100 of those batteries before I do another Apple Watch battery or lcd
This is not the final design, it might gain a connector in the final. It might not. But even if it doesn’t, splicing the wires shouldn’t be too difficult for most who’d dare open their watch. I’m pretty confident I can do it.
True. Although I’d still find a way to mess it up somehow.
That’s me, every time. ‘It’s foolproof’, yeah, I’m about 200 times worse than any fool, sorry.
I’ve repaired and tinkered with many phones and computers, I thought I’d be able to change the battery in my third gen iPod nano… But I completely messed it up because of the soldering. It ain’t easy :(
The nanos are pretty nasty to work on in general
