The difference between the Steam Machine and an off the shelve gamer pc, is that Valve has created a viable pathway to move away from Microsoft’s dominance in the PC gaming market. This is Valve showing to PC hardware makers that a PC gaming market without Windows is possible. Valve just needs to prove that consumers are willing to buy a Linux gaming machine, so the Steam Machine is the litmus test. Microsoft is Valve’s biggest threat to the survival of their business. Since MS’s anti-consumer behavior will push consumers away from PC gaming. Valve wants to create a PC gaming market where MS’s choke hold has been destroyed. Remember this isn’t Valve’s first attempt, the first Steam Machine was released when Win8 was released where MS tried to push the Windows Store as the default way to download software.
I would say that investment in Proton and general Linux support was already driven by the strategical consideration that Microsoft might try to lock-down the PC gaming market.
In that light, the Steam Machine is another part of the same strategy.
But you can build a PC with linux. It’s every bit as possible. Upgradable. Repairable. Functional. Powerful.
You are cheering about yet another proprietary box like a console that affects repairability and how much of it you actually “own” it just because it has linux on it. Yet more “dumbing down” of games to conform to a console spec. You’re blind if you don’t think this will affect games developed to be sold on Steam.
I’m all for linux advancing in gaming, becoming more mainstream, and replacing Windows, but cheering for the demise of PC’s in favor of a proprietary box is a bad idea.
E: this is a very interesting discussion, but I can’t keep replying to the same responses. Lemmy criticizes walled gardens, lack of tech knowledge, anything that isn’t F/OSS, anything that limits ownership of the hardware or the OS…yet here we have people advocating for a proprietary box that has potential to steer game development (yes, toward linux, this is good) and confine it to the steambox’s spec. just because linux good and a semi-benevolent dictatorship is offering it. While I’m not against this console, anything that a BigCorp produces that has the potential to be a walled garden and indirectly constrain development should be met with guarded attitudes and absolutely not cheer the expected demise of PC building or use.
E2: pile it on boys. If lemmy is still here in a decade and Steam does some “bullshit” with the ‘Box I’ll read your complaints as the custom PC market shrinks and gets more expensive thanks to the console-ification of gaming. Consoles aren’t for you per-se. They’re to cheapen hardware, OS, and game development costs and make profits. I’m not against its existence, but leave replacing PC gaming out of your cheering for this box. Good luck.
Most people hit a wall in their life where they get home from work and they just want whatever entertainment system they have to just work. They do not want a side hobby to get to a video game. Linux as it is now will never be the regular. If steam can make a console like experience that a layman can use, they can save PC gaming for all of the gen Z and A folks who only had a phone or console and refuse to learn windows.
I’m kinda surprised to read this. As much as Lemmings deride people for not wanting to change to linux, not understanding the basics of PC’s, not willing to learn tech, falling into walled gardens…here you are. Rationalizing for people who don’t want to learn tech and accepting yet another potential walled garden.
How walled is it really though, it’s literally just a linux PC. SteamOS is the (arch-based) distro, and Valve is just a system integrator selling what are effectively pre built systems. Steam Machines are meant to have competitors selling their own systems with their own hardware choices.
This is no different than buying a gaming PC from Cyberpower, Alienware, Asus, etc except that the OS wouldn’t be windows.
Of course, as it stands there are no other competitors but that’s just because we’re in uncharted territory. If the steam machine sells well, then other integrators will make their own versions (like we saw with the Lenovo Legion & ROG Ally).
The idea that this is a “walled garden” when you can install any software you want, swap the OS, install cracked games, etc. is ridiculous. This kind of thinking is exactly why people think there’s too much infighting in the Linux community. Everyone talks about how they want Linux to become more mainstream and to dethrone windows. But when something like this comes around to actually do that, you all complain about how awful it is
Ok, in the context of the original discussion, there is no need to deride PC gaming if all the steambox is is just another PC and no reason to treat it as anything special other than a cheap-ish PC preloaded with linux.
It’s a reasonably priced gaming pc designed for couch use and pre loaded with a couch friendly os. As someone who prefers to game from her couch I can totally see myself weighing it if I was in a position to not miss the money and to take advantage of it. Especially if I think of when I did my last major pc upgrade.
We are a very niche group. This product will appeal to a lot of people who aren’t here, but also to some who are. In the end, this will be good for PC gaming as a whole, and it will probably either hurt Microsoft or inspire them to make some serious changes. I’m betting that this also makes people a little more curious about their hardware and software. The steam deck proved to me that leaving windows could be pretty simple and not a downgrade. I’ve been looking to build my own steam machine ever since, and now I might not need to depending on the price.
Your response in a comment chain that derides PC gaming, says it would be good to get away from PC gaming, says people don’t have time or interest in building PCs, people don’t want to understand tech, is “this will be good for PC gaming”?
The reason you are being piled on is because Steam, the Steam deck, and most likely both the Frame and the Steam machine, are NOT walled gardens. It is not a console. Valve actively encourages people to use the hardware wherever and however you want, install EPIC, install Heroic, install GOG games, do whatever you want. You can buy a Steam Deck and play only and exclusively pirated games, and Valve won’t stop you, they can’t stop you, because it is just a computer. And it is open, and it is yours. This goes completely against all proprietary software and hardware tenets, and it is incompatible with your argument.
It is a big corporation, and it is a benevolent dictatorship. But Valve is not, and it does not try to behave like a monopoly, it is not proprietary (most of the development work on gaming in Linux is done under FOSS licenses), and it is not a walled garden.
Go to anyone who mainly game either on consoles or a non-hand-built computer this. They won’t do it, because it requires they spend a couple dozen hours researching not only parts but also distros, which is something they know they already don’t care about. I think you might be underestimating the expertise you have in this subject by having it as a hobby if you think that’s easy.
yet another proprietary box like a console that affects repairability and how much of it you actually “own” it just because it has linux on it
Even if I assume the steam hardware is as proprietary as any other random piece of hardware (don’t think that’s true), the reality is that I easily trust Valve 2-10x more in this regard than a Sony / Nintendo / whatever prebuilt to actually deliver a product that doesn’t ship my data off to an advertiser and let’s me replace the ssd without hardlocking itself. The Steam Deck has already done a better on this.
The existence of the Steam Machine does not stop people from building their own Linux gaming box. The Steam Machine just proves that it is possible to do so. Like many people’s first PC was a pre built machine and then their subsequent machines were all custom builds. The Steam Machine can do the same for Linux PCs.
We have to start somewhere. People can buy this box that just works and dip there toes into the linux environment and learn how things operate. When they hit the limits of the proprietary box they will be more comfortable upgrading to a PC of their own running a Linux OS. Most people don’t want to deal with all the hangups that come with trying to switch to Linux. The only reason I’m doing it is because the hangups that come from Windows are reaching the tipping point and I’m good with computers.
The difference between the Steam Machine and an off the shelve gamer pc, is that Valve has created a viable pathway to move away from Microsoft’s dominance in the PC gaming market. This is Valve showing to PC hardware makers that a PC gaming market without Windows is possible. Valve just needs to prove that consumers are willing to buy a Linux gaming machine, so the Steam Machine is the litmus test. Microsoft is Valve’s biggest threat to the survival of their business. Since MS’s anti-consumer behavior will push consumers away from PC gaming. Valve wants to create a PC gaming market where MS’s choke hold has been destroyed. Remember this isn’t Valve’s first attempt, the first Steam Machine was released when Win8 was released where MS tried to push the Windows Store as the default way to download software.
I would say that investment in Proton and general Linux support was already driven by the strategical consideration that Microsoft might try to lock-down the PC gaming market.
In that light, the Steam Machine is another part of the same strategy.
I wish i could upvote this more, PREACH!
But you can build a PC with linux. It’s every bit as possible. Upgradable. Repairable. Functional. Powerful.
You are cheering about yet another proprietary box like a console that affects repairability and how much of it you actually “own” it just because it has linux on it. Yet more “dumbing down” of games to conform to a console spec. You’re blind if you don’t think this will affect games developed to be sold on Steam.
I’m all for linux advancing in gaming, becoming more mainstream, and replacing Windows, but cheering for the demise of PC’s in favor of a proprietary box is a bad idea.
E: this is a very interesting discussion, but I can’t keep replying to the same responses. Lemmy criticizes walled gardens, lack of tech knowledge, anything that isn’t F/OSS, anything that limits ownership of the hardware or the OS…yet here we have people advocating for a proprietary box that has potential to steer game development (yes, toward linux, this is good) and confine it to the steambox’s spec. just because linux good and a semi-benevolent dictatorship is offering it. While I’m not against this console, anything that a BigCorp produces that has the potential to be a walled garden and indirectly constrain development should be met with guarded attitudes and absolutely not cheer the expected demise of PC building or use.
E2: pile it on boys. If lemmy is still here in a decade and Steam does some “bullshit” with the ‘Box I’ll read your complaints as the custom PC market shrinks and gets more expensive thanks to the console-ification of gaming. Consoles aren’t for you per-se. They’re to cheapen hardware, OS, and game development costs and make profits. I’m not against its existence, but leave replacing PC gaming out of your cheering for this box. Good luck.
Most people hit a wall in their life where they get home from work and they just want whatever entertainment system they have to just work. They do not want a side hobby to get to a video game. Linux as it is now will never be the regular. If steam can make a console like experience that a layman can use, they can save PC gaming for all of the gen Z and A folks who only had a phone or console and refuse to learn windows.
In some distros Linux is already at the “just works” stage for gaming at home, at least for desktop PCs.
I’m kinda surprised to read this. As much as Lemmings deride people for not wanting to change to linux, not understanding the basics of PC’s, not willing to learn tech, falling into walled gardens…here you are. Rationalizing for people who don’t want to learn tech and accepting yet another potential walled garden.
It is a realization of the populace. If most people wanted the full control that Linux provides, Windows would have died years ago.
Consumer Linux isn’t going to be a thing until it gets packaged neatly as a product to consume.
How walled is it really though, it’s literally just a linux PC. SteamOS is the (arch-based) distro, and Valve is just a system integrator selling what are effectively pre built systems. Steam Machines are meant to have competitors selling their own systems with their own hardware choices.
This is no different than buying a gaming PC from Cyberpower, Alienware, Asus, etc except that the OS wouldn’t be windows.
Of course, as it stands there are no other competitors but that’s just because we’re in uncharted territory. If the steam machine sells well, then other integrators will make their own versions (like we saw with the Lenovo Legion & ROG Ally).
The idea that this is a “walled garden” when you can install any software you want, swap the OS, install cracked games, etc. is ridiculous. This kind of thinking is exactly why people think there’s too much infighting in the Linux community. Everyone talks about how they want Linux to become more mainstream and to dethrone windows. But when something like this comes around to actually do that, you all complain about how awful it is
Ok, in the context of the original discussion, there is no need to deride PC gaming if all the steambox is is just another PC and no reason to treat it as anything special other than a cheap-ish PC preloaded with linux.
It’s a reasonably priced gaming pc designed for couch use and pre loaded with a couch friendly os. As someone who prefers to game from her couch I can totally see myself weighing it if I was in a position to not miss the money and to take advantage of it. Especially if I think of when I did my last major pc upgrade.
Who is deriding PC gaming? Nothing in the OP or the first comment you replied to is doing that.
You’re letting perfect be the enemy of good.
We are a very niche group. This product will appeal to a lot of people who aren’t here, but also to some who are. In the end, this will be good for PC gaming as a whole, and it will probably either hurt Microsoft or inspire them to make some serious changes. I’m betting that this also makes people a little more curious about their hardware and software. The steam deck proved to me that leaving windows could be pretty simple and not a downgrade. I’ve been looking to build my own steam machine ever since, and now I might not need to depending on the price.
Your response in a comment chain that derides PC gaming, says it would be good to get away from PC gaming, says people don’t have time or interest in building PCs, people don’t want to understand tech, is “this will be good for PC gaming”?
Ok.
I’ve built cars and motorcycles. It’s far easier to just buy a car or motorcycle.
That isn’t what the context of the discussion is about. Please read my edit and other responses.
The reason you are being piled on is because Steam, the Steam deck, and most likely both the Frame and the Steam machine, are NOT walled gardens. It is not a console. Valve actively encourages people to use the hardware wherever and however you want, install EPIC, install Heroic, install GOG games, do whatever you want. You can buy a Steam Deck and play only and exclusively pirated games, and Valve won’t stop you, they can’t stop you, because it is just a computer. And it is open, and it is yours. This goes completely against all proprietary software and hardware tenets, and it is incompatible with your argument.
It is a big corporation, and it is a benevolent dictatorship. But Valve is not, and it does not try to behave like a monopoly, it is not proprietary (most of the development work on gaming in Linux is done under FOSS licenses), and it is not a walled garden.
Go to anyone who mainly game either on consoles or a non-hand-built computer this. They won’t do it, because it requires they spend a couple dozen hours researching not only parts but also distros, which is something they know they already don’t care about. I think you might be underestimating the expertise you have in this subject by having it as a hobby if you think that’s easy.
Even if I assume the steam hardware is as proprietary as any other random piece of hardware (don’t think that’s true), the reality is that I easily trust Valve 2-10x more in this regard than a Sony / Nintendo / whatever prebuilt to actually deliver a product that doesn’t ship my data off to an advertiser and let’s me replace the ssd without hardlocking itself. The Steam Deck has already done a better on this.
The existence of the Steam Machine does not stop people from building their own Linux gaming box. The Steam Machine just proves that it is possible to do so. Like many people’s first PC was a pre built machine and then their subsequent machines were all custom builds. The Steam Machine can do the same for Linux PCs.
We have to start somewhere. People can buy this box that just works and dip there toes into the linux environment and learn how things operate. When they hit the limits of the proprietary box they will be more comfortable upgrading to a PC of their own running a Linux OS. Most people don’t want to deal with all the hangups that come with trying to switch to Linux. The only reason I’m doing it is because the hangups that come from Windows are reaching the tipping point and I’m good with computers.