It’s not for people that build their own PCs. It’s for console people that are Steam-curious. People that bought the Steamdeck but don’t have a PC. I know a few of them.
I’m excited to see an expansion away from MS and Sony and see what improvements Steam makes for Linux. Steam (combined with Win 11) is a big reason why Linux is growing in use and development.
I like Steam as a whole but I do wish the PC market was a little more decentralized.
Bold of you to assume you can build an equivalent PC in terms of price/performance without knowing Steam Machine’s price. Good luck with RAM
Valve already announced it will be priced similarly to a PC you build yourself.
There’s a lot of assumptions going around the internet as fact with valves new devices.
Something worth mentioning with RAM is that it’s still cheaper than a GPU. Prices are going to be double, perhaps triple what they were last year, but that’s £200 at the upper end. An upper end GPU is still over £1000.
Proportionally it’s awful, but I don’t have money proportionally. I’ll have £200 before I have £1000.
That said, I’m running the gtx 900 series and 16GB DDR3 RAM happily because I don’t really play new games, so it’s not my fight.
I’m not sure what your point is here exactly, but for one, you’re underestimating the new prices for upper end DDR5 RAM severely; and secondly guess what GPUs come with a bunch of?
cocaine and sex workers?
Depends what you mean by “upper end”, but already 64GB is running for over $600. And it’s almost certainly going to get worse. I wouldn’t be stunned if 32GB tops out at close to $1000 next year.
I feel like the biggest thing everyone always overlooks is the amount of researchyou need to do to build a PC. Understanding what motherboard, ram, cpu, and gpu will let you play the games you want is not very clear, especially now we have AMD making good cpus and Intel making Gpus.
The naming conventions are all over the place and the specs on what’s best and what’s compatible is opaque at times.
Building the PC is easy, but making sure you didn’t waste your money by buying a motherboard that won’t work on the next generation of chips or you misunderstood the 10+ gpu models distributed by multiple different distributors is also easy.
Yes and no, if you don’t feel like doing a bunch of research pcpartspicker and reddit have all kinds of recommended PC builds at every budget level. You can also pay people to just build a PC for you. Also… pre-built gaming PCs have always been a thing? So I don’t really see the hype tbh.
You’re not seeing the big picture. It’s not a box. It’s much more than that.
It’s a cube.
A Weighted Storage Cube, if you will. ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
But can it provide emotional support as well?!
That’s a whole new dimension!
Typical, “it is not for me, therefore I declare it is stupid and not for anyone!”
It’s ok to not be marketed to. It’s good that a product was not designed for you specifically. “I can build the same PC…” Shhhh, shut up. Go do it, let other people like and enjoy their stuff. You don’t have to buy it if you don’t like it.
They didn’t declare anything. OP was just asking what is the point of it when you can build a cheaper PC that does the same thing. It’s a valid question and others have provided answers to it.
EDIT: You all don’t have to argue with me about this. All I’m saying is OP didn’t declare that this product wasn’t for anyone.
Yeah people are so dumb. You can go to a scrapyard and build a cheap car yourself. Why anyone would buy a car is beyond me.
That’s a false equivalent. I am confident that I could coach my mother through building a computer. I think most mechanics would struggle to assemble an entire car.
This, but unironically
Did you know that I make a mean risotto? It’s so fire. Like, I use all these high class ingredients, a delicious local cheese that tastes like magic. And I can get it to the perfect consistency, and I can do it for relatively cheap. Because I’m doing it myself, labor is not accounted in, I just pay for the ingredients. Thus I can use more expensive ingredients as well.
You know what I also like to do? I like to go out and eat at fancy restaurants with my friends and family. I also eat risotto when I eat out. Their risotto is also just as good as mine. Sometimes better, sometimes not so much. It is always more expensive than cooking myself of course. But you know what I don’t like to do? I don’t like to cook for dozens of people. It is too much labor. However, I can go with a party of 10 or more people and eat in a restaurant. And they will serve us, because they don’t care that there are too many of us. Because we are paying them to cook. I exchange money, for more convenience and less effort. Ain’t that wild?
So, anyways, I’m not talking about food.
In the time you spend making a risotto, you could probably put together a nice PC, and it will probably last a lot longer than a meal. I’m not sure this is a good analogy
The point is that it is for people who don’t know or even want to know how to build a PC. The only thing they care about is playing games with minimal effort.
So saying you can build a faster PC is a non-argument that makes no sense.
Have they even given a potential price yet?
Well first we don’t know the price, other than “like a PC” unless I missed something.
Second, sure, someone like me, who already has the background and experience building gaming PCs, maybe (maybe) I could replicate most of the specs at the same cost, possibly even improve them in a few areas. But economies of scale, the labor on my end, shifting market prices… Unless Valve is marking these things up like 50% or more I just don’t see how an individual is going to compete on cost once you include labor.
Or the hours to learn what fits in that form factor. You could duplicate someone else’s build I guess, but you can’t change much without having to learn if it’ll fit.
Oh yeah, I was not even considering trying to jam everything in that tiny case and getting the cooling and cabling sorted out. I would for sure skip that and just go with a standard mid-size tower, were I going to try this (I’m not)
I don’t get it. We don’t know how much it will cost so how could anyone claim they can build one cheaper? Have you seen the cost of memory lately?
For the average PC user, the (modern) Steam Machine is a mediocre 3rd-party prebuilt system with the interesting quirk of being Linux native with no Microsoft licensing.
For the average gamer, the Steam Machine is a console-like experience to a game library stretching back to nearly the dawn of gaming with little worry that the next release will have you purchasing your favorite titles again.
For the average game developer, the new lineup is excellent reference hardware. Having something real to target helps combat scope creep, whereby a game has fancy features that look nice until you realize the game only runs properly on a $15K machine for example.
For Valve, they are in a life or death battle to sever their dependency on Microsoft. Their hardware is mostly an excuse to build out their platform capabilities
- The 2013 Steam Machine coincided with releasing a Linux native version of their client.
- The OG Steam controller encourages devs to implement their Steam Input virtual control package.
- The Steam Link upgraded their remote play capabilities.
- The Steam Deck coincided with the deployment of Proton, so they can make their back-catalog run outside windows on any x86_64 machine. It also served as a testbed for improving their power efficiency and standby mode operations.
- With the Steam Frame, they’re implementing both FEX and Lepton:
- FEX runs x86_64 games on ARM devices (meaning that it can run any windows game on any average smartphone/tablet/etc if it’s powerful enough)
- Lepton is based on Waydroid to run Android apps on Linux, allowing game developers for Android and the Quest to easily import their titles into the Steam platform
- The Box is an important accessory to the Frame, as the headset is going to be lightweight system comparatively.
The general point is that a closed proprietary system is seldom a better option than an open non-proprietary one.
Yeah, sure, “It’s Steam” and “Gary is a good guy” (so supposedly was “Elon” about a decade ago, by the way), but Gary might have a heart attack and die tomorrow (nothing personal, Gary, I can happen to any of us) and then those with the closed proprietary system are way more likely to end up shafted by Steam’s new “enshittification is the future” MBA management than those with the open non-proprietary one.
Ultimatelly it all depends on just how easy it is to wipeout the OS in a Steam Box and get a new one in.
There’s a hidden advantage here apart from moving away from Microsoft, or having 1st party controller support.
Game devs will have a precise target to optimize for.
If enough steam machines and steam decks are out there, it simplifies porting software since you have a handful of fixed targets to hit. A studio could easily buy a few of these appliances for testing and development, and know for certain the product will run as intended. It’s a luxury currently enjoyed by consoles, and it really does help their dominance in their respective niches.
This also helps smaller studios since the bare minimum means targeting a known steam platform, rather than pulling machine specs out of thin air and taking their best shot. It’s a much easier problem to solve and takes a lot less time and money.
I think there will always be room for high-end gaming, but as long as you’re “steam machine 2025 compatible” or whatever, you know what you’re going to get.
Yep. My friend is an indie game developer and while his studio’s next release is “Windows only” (and consoles) they are testing to make sure it runs well on the Steam Deck via Proton / will be Verified.
The next release is Windows Only. However, it includes consoles and Steam Deck verified…
Did I read that correctly? What are they skipping, the Commodore 64?
They are not making a Linux build, but they are making sure the Windows build plays nice with Proton. At least that’s how I read that.
Does that mean that I’m left hanging with my Sinclair ZX81? Again?
Windows only (plus this long list of other hardware.)
With the diversity of Steam boxes out there, you can’t really optimize anything.
There’s a single one. The valve one.
apart from moving away from Microsoft
Linux.
You’re on Lemmy. I’d appreciate you not using such cuss words
Forgive me father, for I have sinned.
But it has what PCs crave.
If you ever want to see the concept of “survivor bias” in action, watch PC Master Race dudes try and explain why you don’t need a Steam Box.
The difference between the Steam Machine and an off the shelve gamer pc, is that Valve has created a viable pathway to move away from Microsoft’s dominance in the PC gaming market. This is Valve showing to PC hardware makers that a PC gaming market without Windows is possible. Valve just needs to prove that consumers are willing to buy a Linux gaming machine, so the Steam Machine is the litmus test. Microsoft is Valve’s biggest threat to the survival of their business. Since MS’s anti-consumer behavior will push consumers away from PC gaming. Valve wants to create a PC gaming market where MS’s choke hold has been destroyed. Remember this isn’t Valve’s first attempt, the first Steam Machine was released when Win8 was released where MS tried to push the Windows Store as the default way to download software.
I would say that investment in Proton and general Linux support was already driven by the strategical consideration that Microsoft might try to lock-down the PC gaming market.
In that light, the Steam Machine is another part of the same strategy.
I wish i could upvote this more, PREACH!
But you can build a PC with linux. It’s every bit as possible. Upgradable. Repairable. Functional. Powerful.
You are cheering about yet another proprietary box like a console that affects repairability and how much of it you actually “own” it just because it has linux on it. Yet more “dumbing down” of games to conform to a console spec. You’re blind if you don’t think this will affect games developed to be sold on Steam.
I’m all for linux advancing in gaming, becoming more mainstream, and replacing Windows, but cheering for the demise of PC’s in favor of a proprietary box is a bad idea.
E: this is a very interesting discussion, but I can’t keep replying to the same responses. Lemmy criticizes walled gardens, lack of tech knowledge, anything that isn’t F/OSS, anything that limits ownership of the hardware or the OS…yet here we have people advocating for a proprietary box that has potential to steer game development (yes, toward linux, this is good) and confine it to the steambox’s spec. just because linux good and a semi-benevolent dictatorship is offering it. While I’m not against this console, anything that a BigCorp produces that has the potential to be a walled garden and indirectly constrain development should be met with guarded attitudes and absolutely not cheer the expected demise of PC building or use.
E2: pile it on boys. If lemmy is still here in a decade and Steam does some “bullshit” with the ‘Box I’ll read your complaints as the custom PC market shrinks and gets more expensive thanks to the console-ification of gaming. Consoles aren’t for you per-se. They’re to cheapen hardware, OS, and game development costs and make profits. I’m not against its existence, but leave replacing PC gaming out of your cheering for this box. Good luck.
Most people hit a wall in their life where they get home from work and they just want whatever entertainment system they have to just work. They do not want a side hobby to get to a video game. Linux as it is now will never be the regular. If steam can make a console like experience that a layman can use, they can save PC gaming for all of the gen Z and A folks who only had a phone or console and refuse to learn windows.
In some distros Linux is already at the “just works” stage for gaming at home, at least for desktop PCs.
I’m kinda surprised to read this. As much as Lemmings deride people for not wanting to change to linux, not understanding the basics of PC’s, not willing to learn tech, falling into walled gardens…here you are. Rationalizing for people who don’t want to learn tech and accepting yet another potential walled garden.
It is a realization of the populace. If most people wanted the full control that Linux provides, Windows would have died years ago.
Consumer Linux isn’t going to be a thing until it gets packaged neatly as a product to consume.
You’re letting perfect be the enemy of good.
How walled is it really though, it’s literally just a linux PC. SteamOS is the (arch-based) distro, and Valve is just a system integrator selling what are effectively pre built systems. Steam Machines are meant to have competitors selling their own systems with their own hardware choices.
This is no different than buying a gaming PC from Cyberpower, Alienware, Asus, etc except that the OS wouldn’t be windows.
Of course, as it stands there are no other competitors but that’s just because we’re in uncharted territory. If the steam machine sells well, then other integrators will make their own versions (like we saw with the Lenovo Legion & ROG Ally).
The idea that this is a “walled garden” when you can install any software you want, swap the OS, install cracked games, etc. is ridiculous. This kind of thinking is exactly why people think there’s too much infighting in the Linux community. Everyone talks about how they want Linux to become more mainstream and to dethrone windows. But when something like this comes around to actually do that, you all complain about how awful it is
Ok, in the context of the original discussion, there is no need to deride PC gaming if all the steambox is is just another PC and no reason to treat it as anything special other than a cheap-ish PC preloaded with linux.
It’s a reasonably priced gaming pc designed for couch use and pre loaded with a couch friendly os. As someone who prefers to game from her couch I can totally see myself weighing it if I was in a position to not miss the money and to take advantage of it. Especially if I think of when I did my last major pc upgrade.
Who is deriding PC gaming? Nothing in the OP or the first comment you replied to is doing that.
We are a very niche group. This product will appeal to a lot of people who aren’t here, but also to some who are. In the end, this will be good for PC gaming as a whole, and it will probably either hurt Microsoft or inspire them to make some serious changes. I’m betting that this also makes people a little more curious about their hardware and software. The steam deck proved to me that leaving windows could be pretty simple and not a downgrade. I’ve been looking to build my own steam machine ever since, and now I might not need to depending on the price.
Your response in a comment chain that derides PC gaming, says it would be good to get away from PC gaming, says people don’t have time or interest in building PCs, people don’t want to understand tech, is “this will be good for PC gaming”?
Ok.
Go to anyone who mainly game either on consoles or a non-hand-built computer this. They won’t do it, because it requires they spend a couple dozen hours researching not only parts but also distros, which is something they know they already don’t care about. I think you might be underestimating the expertise you have in this subject by having it as a hobby if you think that’s easy.
yet another proprietary box like a console that affects repairability and how much of it you actually “own” it just because it has linux on it
Even if I assume the steam hardware is as proprietary as any other random piece of hardware (don’t think that’s true), the reality is that I easily trust Valve 2-10x more in this regard than a Sony / Nintendo / whatever prebuilt to actually deliver a product that doesn’t ship my data off to an advertiser and let’s me replace the ssd without hardlocking itself. The Steam Deck has already done a better on this.
We have to start somewhere. People can buy this box that just works and dip there toes into the linux environment and learn how things operate. When they hit the limits of the proprietary box they will be more comfortable upgrading to a PC of their own running a Linux OS. Most people don’t want to deal with all the hangups that come with trying to switch to Linux. The only reason I’m doing it is because the hangups that come from Windows are reaching the tipping point and I’m good with computers.
I’ve built cars and motorcycles. It’s far easier to just buy a car or motorcycle.
That isn’t what the context of the discussion is about. Please read my edit and other responses.
The reason you are being piled on is because Steam, the Steam deck, and most likely both the Frame and the Steam machine, are NOT walled gardens. It is not a console. Valve actively encourages people to use the hardware wherever and however you want, install EPIC, install Heroic, install GOG games, do whatever you want. You can buy a Steam Deck and play only and exclusively pirated games, and Valve won’t stop you, they can’t stop you, because it is just a computer. And it is open, and it is yours. This goes completely against all proprietary software and hardware tenets, and it is incompatible with your argument.
It is a big corporation, and it is a benevolent dictatorship. But Valve is not, and it does not try to behave like a monopoly, it is not proprietary (most of the development work on gaming in Linux is done under FOSS licenses), and it is not a walled garden.
The existence of the Steam Machine does not stop people from building their own Linux gaming box. The Steam Machine just proves that it is possible to do so. Like many people’s first PC was a pre built machine and then their subsequent machines were all custom builds. The Steam Machine can do the same for Linux PCs.
Yeah but the Steam Box comes with steam already inside. If you build a PC you need to get your own steam and then someone put it all inside yourself.
I dunno, that sounds like like Sisyphean task to me.
The target audience for the Steam Box? Game developers.
Makes sense for Valve.
