Your link about water gave me a good idea who to email about this waterless/detergentless laundry thing that can also be used in place of a shower that I saw in a dream and have started making. It uses ions, and the parts already exist, just no one’s put them together in a house-sized or mobile tent unit before
I share your worries. But I don’t see how me or you personally not having kids is going to solve anything. We need a future generation to continue our fight against this.
While the right wingers and religious keep breeding like rabbits, I think our personal choice to not have children will just leave us childless and the world still fucked. Having children, at least there will be people in the future that share our hopes and dreams.
Don’t get me wrong. Opting for children is a personal choice with no good or bad answer. But it’s not so clear cut as you portray it, as I say there’s no right or wrong answer to the question.
What future? We have a century at max before the planet can no longer support whatever life is left on it.
Global heating is not slowing dowm amy time soon, we’re literally predicted to have a double blue ocean event this september. Ice reflects the sun, ocean water doesn’t. With no ice and increasing amounts of carbon dioxide in the oceans and atmosphere, there will be more and more heating and less and less oxygen as the phytoplankton die.
Arable land is what food grows in. It’s depleting fast and feeding billions of people without fertile soil to grow food, is impossible. And crops need a stable climate and temperate weather, which we are also rapidly running out of, what with the all the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and +4 by 2050 predictions.
Let the people who think god and racism will save them have 10 kids each, who cares at this point. They’re accelerating the carbon in the atmostphere and resource depletion massively, and any of them left after the first few waves of global famines and droughts can enjoy their shitty hellworld with expired canned food till the oxygen runs out and atmosphere heats beyond viable levels for life.
But people who know praying can’t change reality, having kids because they think their baby could be the chosen one who can defy physics and magically cure the world while bringing about a perfect communist utopia… lmao that’s just fucking delusional.
What a ridiculous comparison. All people are petrol to you? To improve your comparison realistically: all people and therefore all bottles are different. Some may even hold water.
Your negative attitude is what’s throwing petrol on the fire. Hopelessness leads to inaction and that’s really not what we need right now. We have the duty to hope and build a next generation with the same hopes and dreams if we want any other future for mankind than the one you’re so afraid of.
You may ridicule this, but that’s for sure not going to change anything.
So hang on, let me get this straight because this is just wild to me.
Are you saying you believe that people are not responsible of climate change?
And that each new person brought into this world has 0 carbon footprint and uses no resources?
Or are you trying to argue that:
While you believe in climate collapse and resource depletion being real problems that will be world ending in the near future; you think that people accererating this apocalypse by creating new lives to consume yet more resources and produce yet more carbon, thereby speeding the rate of climate collapse and resource depletion… is actually totally justifyable because one/some of these new people being born might just be magical wizards able to rewrite the laws of physics to save the world?
I’m genuinely so curious to know your thought process here.
Also a lot of people have children because it’s instinct. They feel the urge. It’s biological. Both me and my wife had this feeling. You want to create something that you will love.
I know all the arguments for not having children, but we are just animals following instinct sometimes/often.
You could adopt instead of pumping more bodies into the bone crushing machine.
I’m so glad that you considered only you two in this matter. never asking the consent of the individual if they want to be born in this shithole. They will watch you get old and die you know, but you’ll be dead so who gives fuck am I right! They will watch as the ground beneath their feet becomes uninhabitable year after year. But hey biological urge matters much more than the individual! Fuck off with this disgusting mentality. Just on this comment alone I feel the “I don’t care as long as it makes me happy” attitude bleeding through the screen.
Tell me, why must we continue to go on? We actually don’t have to try. Life becomes more freeing when we focus on the people actually here and suffering. Instead you chose to perpetuate the bone crushing machine, and not stick it to the system.
So tired of the “life is a gift mentality”. The fuck it isn’t. The only people it is a gift for are the people holding us on the chain around our neck in this coercive system. Life is suffering. Especially as the years tick by. I don’t care about the difficulties of adoption, fucking adopt. Oh but creating your own crotch gremlin is much more “loveable” than the kid yearning for ANY parents, ANY LOVE, but are never given the time of day. There was a person who I went to high school with who lived at an adoption center. He graduated with no parents. What an accomplishment to be alone for! Just to then get spit out by the system! Or abort for christ sake. Quit being selfish and for the love of god actually and I mean ACTUALLY start thinking about the children.
I feel like we disagree on a fundamental level. You feel like life isn’t a gift. I feel like it is.
Agree to disagree.
Also we don’t live in such a horrible place, we are actually thriving compared to a lot of places/countries, and we had our kids even before COVID, when the world in our immediate surroundings was a bit better and brighter. There wasn’t as much doubt as to our immediate safety back then.
Have a good one, friend. 👍 Hope your outlook on life improves eventually. ❤️
(Based on the assumption you live in america, if not we can talk about your country’s atrocities as well and what a gift to life they are)
“Agree to disagree” what a copout.
You realise we are indulging in other countries resources as we speak. Countries that use child and slave labor to harvest the very minerals for our devices. Is life a gift to those people? What about the genocide in Gaza funded by our tax dollars? What a wonderful gift! You birthed another taxpayer that Israel was just dying to have!! Oh and ICE as well! Yipee!
My friend the reason we live in a “good place” is because of the amount of imperialism perpetuated by this fucking awful country. Was life a gift to the native Americans we stole land from? Was life a gift to all the Jewish people murdered in the holocaust? Is it a gift for all those Cubans living under a hundred year ongoing embargo? WHAT A GIFT REAGAN WAS FOR THE AIDS CRISIS! What a gift childhood cancer is! Dice in which you rolled when giving birth.
What a gift life is that my body is breaking down every second of every day with not a thing to do about it. What a gift is is watching my parents get old and sick. What a gift it is that I must pay for healthcare just because I didn’t choose to be alive. What a gift it is that boss makes a dollar and I make a dime. Life was fucking abysmal before covid are you kidding? It’s just been accelerating. Don’t give me that crap, we have know about climate change since the 70s maybe even earlier. Your child will experience the water wars. The climate refugees being gunned down on our doorstep. The rising unlivable temps. Food items becoming scarce. You got your biological urge satiated though! So that is good!
Again I say, you got what you wanted and that is all that matters in the end. Not the suffering of your child. Life. is. suffering. They will suffer immensely.
Your worldview is so fucking limited it is astonishing.
Have a good one as well, stop feeding the bone crushing machine.
I feel like you have too much anger for me to talk in a reasonable manner with you.
You can call me a cop-out and whatever ad hominem you like. I just feel like talking with you would exhausting, no offense. We don’t share the same world view because life isn’t the same all over the world. And that’s sad, but having a child in one part of the world isn’t the same as another.
Feel better, alright? I hope you cope through this. ❤️
That because you are just an animal and can’t control yourself, you forced them into existence, even though you knew how bad things were going to be?
That it’s not your fault (because you are just an animal who can’t go against your basic instinct to procreate and aren’t capable of self control) that bringing them into this world sped up man made climate collapse and resource depletion, cutting their lives even shorter and making them more brutal?
That you were aware of the imminant food, water and oxygen shortages; +4c climate, catastrophic weather, global fascism, billionaires, ww3, and the predicted human casualties from all this being in the billions; all set to happen within your offsprings lifetime, and yet you still had them because you are an animal who can’t control their urges?
Procreation is hubris, cruelty and arrogance, and you personally at this point don’t even have ignorance as an excuse.
I’m not planning on having kids, but personally it seems like being a human under bad conditions is still better than being nearly any other animal on the planet under normal conditions. I do get the argument for not reproducing to avoid your kids having to go through a worsening environment, but it’s kind of silly to try to push that perspective on others as some kind of moral issue.
Like, what good does it do to just spew venom about people wanting children? Save that for the ultra rich who already used their entire year’s allotment of sustainable carbon footprint 10 days in. Save it for the literal fascists who are actively working to prevent anyone from doing anything to slow it down.
Ultimately this planet will eventually be consumed by the sun no matter what we do. There’s no need to be a jerk about it to people who have no control over how long it all lasts in the mean time.
Alright. People want to have kids no matter what. It’s instinct. You can’t “talk people out of” their instincts. You’ll waste your life in this endeavor, even if you would be correct. I hear your arguments on a logical level, but it doesn’t help.
Take my advice and find another goal, even if it stings. Take care! ❤️
Oookay, now that’s uncalled for. I am strongly against rape, and only for consent. This hasn’t nothing to do with the urge to have sex, and only to do with the want to start a family and pour love into my own kids like my parents did to me. Nothing else.
Don’t go there, that’s not a cool argumentative approach. Don’t do that, please. Thank you.
I feel weird posting this, but: While I, personally, agree with you and feel no desire to have children, one YouTuber I very much respect does not share that opinion; even though she’s very aware of the climate crisis, she feels that cutting childbirth to tiny levels is not a safe solution.
Oh cause that is so much better! Let’s keep perpetuating a system that doesn’t serve us! Oh the horror of this society ending!!!
This comment feels like you see children as a tool and not human beings. You are only worth the value you create as this coercive system suggests. Pfft humans aren’t born valuable are you crazy! They have to prove it.
she feels that cutting childbirth to tiny levels is not a safe solution.
So she believes that talking about antinatalism is dangerous because the very idea of not reproducing is so contageous and harmful that anybody seeing people talking about not having kids is susceptable to it?
Or does she believe that somehow this hugely unpopular notion will be forced en masse upon everybody worldwide, and anybody found to be creating more people will be punished?
Because ngl, this youtuber doesn’t sound like she’s thought this through.
There’s a huge difference between talking about antinatalism and attacking people for fun on the internet. What you’re doing isn’t intellectual or altruistic, it’s just another flavor of narcissism and bile.
Your entire post is laden with exaggerations about my claim towards things being “forced”, and that child avoidance stances are “dangerously contagious”, which is extraordinarily dishonest and suggests I’d be wasting time talking with you.
If you want to tone it back and ask a question, fine, but don’t escalate to every disagreement being a demon.
I was trying to get you to expand her argument on why she believes antinatalism is wrong. But sure, you do you.
Btw, is this the youtuber who also said she doesn’t want to do a philosophy talk about veganism because she likes eating meat and it’s part of her cultural identity?
Edit: if it’s Philosophy Tube and you saw her video last month about having kids vs childfree- she’s the person I was talking about. Don’t base your views about what is good for the climate off something someone who won’t even do a philosophical discussion about veganism because it so goes against her morals, has said.
This is a direct copy and paste of a comment I posted yesterday as I’m too tired to retype it in different words.
Just keep in mind that you’re planning on bringing a child into a world where 90% of the planets arable land will be depleted by 2050, global fresh water demand will exceed supply by 40% by 2030 and 7 of 9 planetary boundaries have now been breached, so within the next 25 years billions of people will die in massive droughts and famines, and the oceans will be so acidic that the phytoplankton that produce 50 to 80% of the worlds oxygen won’t survive.
Oh and there’s a chance for a double Blue Ocean Event this year too.
It’s very hard not to be a misanthrope when this is the world humanity has created for itself.
Your link about water gave me a good idea who to email about this waterless/detergentless laundry thing that can also be used in place of a shower that I saw in a dream and have started making. It uses ions, and the parts already exist, just no one’s put them together in a house-sized or mobile tent unit before
So thanks!
You gonna patent the sonic shower?
I share your worries. But I don’t see how me or you personally not having kids is going to solve anything. We need a future generation to continue our fight against this.
While the right wingers and religious keep breeding like rabbits, I think our personal choice to not have children will just leave us childless and the world still fucked. Having children, at least there will be people in the future that share our hopes and dreams.
Don’t get me wrong. Opting for children is a personal choice with no good or bad answer. But it’s not so clear cut as you portray it, as I say there’s no right or wrong answer to the question.
What future? We have a century at max before the planet can no longer support whatever life is left on it.
Global heating is not slowing dowm amy time soon, we’re literally predicted to have a double blue ocean event this september. Ice reflects the sun, ocean water doesn’t. With no ice and increasing amounts of carbon dioxide in the oceans and atmosphere, there will be more and more heating and less and less oxygen as the phytoplankton die.
Arable land is what food grows in. It’s depleting fast and feeding billions of people without fertile soil to grow food, is impossible. And crops need a stable climate and temperate weather, which we are also rapidly running out of, what with the all the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and +4 by 2050 predictions.
Let the people who think god and racism will save them have 10 kids each, who cares at this point. They’re accelerating the carbon in the atmostphere and resource depletion massively, and any of them left after the first few waves of global famines and droughts can enjoy their shitty hellworld with expired canned food till the oxygen runs out and atmosphere heats beyond viable levels for life.
But people who know praying can’t change reality, having kids because they think their baby could be the chosen one who can defy physics and magically cure the world while bringing about a perfect communist utopia… lmao that’s just fucking delusional.
No chosen one, just one of many. That’s not a delusion
Your negative attitude certainly doesn’t help anything
Lets throw more fuel on the fire, one of these many bottles of petrol will surely change everything and put the fire out.
… Oh no, the fire is getting worse?
We just need to add more accelerants, one of these many bottles of petrol will surely change everything and put the fire out.
… Oh no
What a ridiculous comparison. All people are petrol to you? To improve your comparison realistically: all people and therefore all bottles are different. Some may even hold water.
Your negative attitude is what’s throwing petrol on the fire. Hopelessness leads to inaction and that’s really not what we need right now. We have the duty to hope and build a next generation with the same hopes and dreams if we want any other future for mankind than the one you’re so afraid of.
You may ridicule this, but that’s for sure not going to change anything.
So hang on, let me get this straight because this is just wild to me.
Are you saying you believe that people are not responsible of climate change?
And that each new person brought into this world has 0 carbon footprint and uses no resources?
Or are you trying to argue that:
While you believe in climate collapse and resource depletion being real problems that will be world ending in the near future; you think that people accererating this apocalypse by creating new lives to consume yet more resources and produce yet more carbon, thereby speeding the rate of climate collapse and resource depletion… is actually totally justifyable because one/some of these new people being born might just be magical wizards able to rewrite the laws of physics to save the world?
I’m genuinely so curious to know your thought process here.
We must go on, don’t we. We have to try.
Also a lot of people have children because it’s instinct. They feel the urge. It’s biological. Both me and my wife had this feeling. You want to create something that you will love.
I know all the arguments for not having children, but we are just animals following instinct sometimes/often.
You could adopt instead of pumping more bodies into the bone crushing machine.
I’m so glad that you considered only you two in this matter. never asking the consent of the individual if they want to be born in this shithole. They will watch you get old and die you know, but you’ll be dead so who gives fuck am I right! They will watch as the ground beneath their feet becomes uninhabitable year after year. But hey biological urge matters much more than the individual! Fuck off with this disgusting mentality. Just on this comment alone I feel the “I don’t care as long as it makes me happy” attitude bleeding through the screen.
Tell me, why must we continue to go on? We actually don’t have to try. Life becomes more freeing when we focus on the people actually here and suffering. Instead you chose to perpetuate the bone crushing machine, and not stick it to the system.
So tired of the “life is a gift mentality”. The fuck it isn’t. The only people it is a gift for are the people holding us on the chain around our neck in this coercive system. Life is suffering. Especially as the years tick by. I don’t care about the difficulties of adoption, fucking adopt. Oh but creating your own crotch gremlin is much more “loveable” than the kid yearning for ANY parents, ANY LOVE, but are never given the time of day. There was a person who I went to high school with who lived at an adoption center. He graduated with no parents. What an accomplishment to be alone for! Just to then get spit out by the system! Or abort for christ sake. Quit being selfish and for the love of god actually and I mean ACTUALLY start thinking about the children.
I feel like we disagree on a fundamental level. You feel like life isn’t a gift. I feel like it is.
Agree to disagree.
Also we don’t live in such a horrible place, we are actually thriving compared to a lot of places/countries, and we had our kids even before COVID, when the world in our immediate surroundings was a bit better and brighter. There wasn’t as much doubt as to our immediate safety back then.
Have a good one, friend. 👍 Hope your outlook on life improves eventually. ❤️
(Based on the assumption you live in america, if not we can talk about your country’s atrocities as well and what a gift to life they are)
“Agree to disagree” what a copout.
You realise we are indulging in other countries resources as we speak. Countries that use child and slave labor to harvest the very minerals for our devices. Is life a gift to those people? What about the genocide in Gaza funded by our tax dollars? What a wonderful gift! You birthed another taxpayer that Israel was just dying to have!! Oh and ICE as well! Yipee!
My friend the reason we live in a “good place” is because of the amount of imperialism perpetuated by this fucking awful country. Was life a gift to the native Americans we stole land from? Was life a gift to all the Jewish people murdered in the holocaust? Is it a gift for all those Cubans living under a hundred year ongoing embargo? WHAT A GIFT REAGAN WAS FOR THE AIDS CRISIS! What a gift childhood cancer is! Dice in which you rolled when giving birth.
What a gift life is that my body is breaking down every second of every day with not a thing to do about it. What a gift is is watching my parents get old and sick. What a gift it is that I must pay for healthcare just because I didn’t choose to be alive. What a gift it is that boss makes a dollar and I make a dime. Life was fucking abysmal before covid are you kidding? It’s just been accelerating. Don’t give me that crap, we have know about climate change since the 70s maybe even earlier. Your child will experience the water wars. The climate refugees being gunned down on our doorstep. The rising unlivable temps. Food items becoming scarce. You got your biological urge satiated though! So that is good!
Again I say, you got what you wanted and that is all that matters in the end. Not the suffering of your child. Life. is. suffering. They will suffer immensely.
Your worldview is so fucking limited it is astonishing.
Have a good one as well, stop feeding the bone crushing machine.
I really appreciate you having this rant here. I’ve done it myself so many times it’s burnt me out.
Me too friend… me too.
🫂
I don’t live in America, no.
I feel like you have too much anger for me to talk in a reasonable manner with you.
You can call me a cop-out and whatever ad hominem you like. I just feel like talking with you would exhausting, no offense. We don’t share the same world view because life isn’t the same all over the world. And that’s sad, but having a child in one part of the world isn’t the same as another.
Feel better, alright? I hope you cope through this. ❤️
You going to explain this to your kids?
That because you are just an animal and can’t control yourself, you forced them into existence, even though you knew how bad things were going to be?
That it’s not your fault (because you are just an animal who can’t go against your basic instinct to procreate and aren’t capable of self control) that bringing them into this world sped up man made climate collapse and resource depletion, cutting their lives even shorter and making them more brutal?
That you were aware of the imminant food, water and oxygen shortages; +4c climate, catastrophic weather, global fascism, billionaires, ww3, and the predicted human casualties from all this being in the billions; all set to happen within your offsprings lifetime, and yet you still had them because you are an animal who can’t control their urges?
Procreation is hubris, cruelty and arrogance, and you personally at this point don’t even have ignorance as an excuse.
I’m not planning on having kids, but personally it seems like being a human under bad conditions is still better than being nearly any other animal on the planet under normal conditions. I do get the argument for not reproducing to avoid your kids having to go through a worsening environment, but it’s kind of silly to try to push that perspective on others as some kind of moral issue.
Like, what good does it do to just spew venom about people wanting children? Save that for the ultra rich who already used their entire year’s allotment of sustainable carbon footprint 10 days in. Save it for the literal fascists who are actively working to prevent anyone from doing anything to slow it down.
Ultimately this planet will eventually be consumed by the sun no matter what we do. There’s no need to be a jerk about it to people who have no control over how long it all lasts in the mean time.
We had our kids before even COVID. Those were brighter times, my friend. The world sucks now, admittedly.
But we can’t undo our kids, nor do we want to, of course.
Every point I have raised has been known since before covid. I’ve been trying to get people to listen for ten years now.
Alright. People want to have kids no matter what. It’s instinct. You can’t “talk people out of” their instincts. You’ll waste your life in this endeavor, even if you would be correct. I hear your arguments on a logical level, but it doesn’t help.
Take my advice and find another goal, even if it stings. Take care! ❤️
You sound like the people who say “boys will be boys” when the “boy” rapes someone. It’s “masculine” nature as they say.
Fuck that, keep your “instincts” to yourself
Get a vasectomy if you can’t control yourself.
Oookay, now that’s uncalled for. I am strongly against rape, and only for consent. This hasn’t nothing to do with the urge to have sex, and only to do with the want to start a family and pour love into my own kids like my parents did to me. Nothing else.
Don’t go there, that’s not a cool argumentative approach. Don’t do that, please. Thank you.
I said you are making the same type of argument in this situation just flavored differently.
You have already made it clear that your instincts come first, not the consent of the child who will suffer.
I feel weird posting this, but: While I, personally, agree with you and feel no desire to have children, one YouTuber I very much respect does not share that opinion; even though she’s very aware of the climate crisis, she feels that cutting childbirth to tiny levels is not a safe solution.
Leftists fall for Russian propaganda too. It’s sad to see people fall into doomerism & think they’re morally superior for doing nothing
Oh cause that is so much better! Let’s keep perpetuating a system that doesn’t serve us! Oh the horror of this society ending!!! This comment feels like you see children as a tool and not human beings. You are only worth the value you create as this coercive system suggests. Pfft humans aren’t born valuable are you crazy! They have to prove it.
So she believes that talking about antinatalism is dangerous because the very idea of not reproducing is so contageous and harmful that anybody seeing people talking about not having kids is susceptable to it?
Or does she believe that somehow this hugely unpopular notion will be forced en masse upon everybody worldwide, and anybody found to be creating more people will be punished?
Because ngl, this youtuber doesn’t sound like she’s thought this through.
There’s a huge difference between talking about antinatalism and attacking people for fun on the internet. What you’re doing isn’t intellectual or altruistic, it’s just another flavor of narcissism and bile.
Your entire post is laden with exaggerations about my claim towards things being “forced”, and that child avoidance stances are “dangerously contagious”, which is extraordinarily dishonest and suggests I’d be wasting time talking with you.
If you want to tone it back and ask a question, fine, but don’t escalate to every disagreement being a demon.
I was trying to get you to expand her argument on why she believes antinatalism is wrong. But sure, you do you.
Btw, is this the youtuber who also said she doesn’t want to do a philosophy talk about veganism because she likes eating meat and it’s part of her cultural identity?
Edit: if it’s Philosophy Tube and you saw her video last month about having kids vs childfree- she’s the person I was talking about. Don’t base your views about what is good for the climate off something someone who won’t even do a philosophical discussion about veganism because it so goes against her morals, has said.