During a debate, AOC would smash any Government of Putin candidate. The problem lies with the Democratic Party.
HELL YEAH THIS COUNTRY NEEDS AOC
My right-wing friend finds AOC hot so he might actually vote for her if she runs.
Right wingers love the idea of hate-sex
People in america still believe there is going to be an actual election in 2028?
We just going to post this in every thread from now on?
Zohran Mamdani is just the democratic primary if I understand correctly. He’s not the mayor of New York yet.
She should run if you want JD Vance.
NGL I’ll take any blue tie but we’ve already shown twice that Americans might actually prefer fascism over a woman in charge.
While those are two possible points of data, there are a number of other factors that contributed to each Democratic candidates’ loss vs. Trump.-
- Both suffered from being establishment candidates in an antiestablishment era.
- Both were only really willing to push to milquetoast progressive policies.
- Both followed disappointing democratic presidents that promised a lot and delivered little, often due to their own party sabotaging attempts at major progressive reform.
I truly think that Democrat voters want real, progressive change (even if they find words like “socialism” scary) but most Democrat politicians aren’t willing to anger their wealthy Third Way/Neoliberal/Abundance/whatever-the-fuck-they-want-to-call-themselves donors.
Exactly.
Americans chose a felon rapist clown fascist over HIGHLY qualified women. Twice.
America is not even close to being ready for a female president.
If we want to lose again, run a woman. That’s the shit reality in this shitty country.
Not to mention AOC is still “green”. Clinton was a Senator, a Secretary of State, and ex-first lady. Kamala was a VP. AOC is just a member of the House.
People need to stop fantasizing and get real. It’s also WAY too early to seriously be talking about this.
I remember bullshit like this being spewed about Obama, too. “Obama is too green!” “a black man could NEVER be president. We have never had one before, after all!” (Or are you too young to remember that? I forget there are adults on here now who weren’t even 2-years-old when he was elected.)
… Cue him defeating 2 white successful men by large margins. Doh. Think this through and stop parroting wedge-driving sexist gatekeeping conservative propaganda.
Obama won btw, he didnt lose because he was too green, or black.
How many black candidates lost to white candidates in a post-primary presidential race?
That’s right, zero.
How many female candidates have lost to male candidates in a post-primary presidential race?
Two, or in other words, all of them.
You can make an argument to say that there was racist gatekeeping back when Obama was running, and that was absolutely true, but we never actually had a situation where a political party fronted a black man and lost. We actually do have data that shows that America rejected a female presidential candidate twice. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that America simply isn’t socially developed enough to be capable of looking past the misogyny and we should take that into consideration if our goal is to win.
Ar… Are you really going to use Samples N=1 and N=2 as some sort of statistical relevance? Wtaf?
This logic is most asinine. By that logic, the vast majority of Presidential losses were of white men, and my sample is higher!
Two non-charismatic inauthentic candidates lost, and race and gender had little to do with it because the bigots already coalesce under the maga banner; the problem was that their lack of vision, charisma, authenticity led to the reachable swing-voters either sitting on the couch, or voting for Trump on failed perceptions that he was better for the economy.
When your logic is absolutely ignoring entire swaths of reality, I think its interesting for you to try to attack someone elses logic.
Quaint deflection.
So I guess your excuse if AOC or whatever female candidate the DNC happen to trot out next loses to the next guy, be that JD Vance, some other MAGA nutjob, or even Trump taking a shot at a third term, is that she isn’t charismatic or authentic, is that right?
No, no, it couldn’t possibly be because America has a misogyny problem. I mean, never mind the fact that black men earned the right to vote before any woman did, that’s not relevant at all. History never repeats itself. I’m sure those basement dwelling neckbeards and macho-man wanna-bes will TOTALLY sign on to canvas for AOC. I’m sure her being a woman will not be a factor at all, people will be so enamored with her great policy that they will forget about it entirely!
I think it’s hilarious that if we put Tim Kaine or Biden himself (who was losing by a larger margin than Harris in polling) in, they would’ve lost just the same if not more so… Yet you wouldn’t be here saying, “Golly gee-wizz, I think people are sexist and tired of old white men! I mean, the majority registered voters ARE women after all!” — Therein revealing one’s own gatekeeping sexist dogma.
Also Hillary was a famously unpopular candidate and still won the popular vote, and there were maaaany confounding factors to a weak democratic race in 2024 apart from Kamala’s gender
She was at one point one of the most popular politicians in America, actually. She polled among the general population alongside Bernie Sanders. People decided she was awful once she started running for president and Social Media campaigns told everyone what to think about her.
Actually Bernie Sanders was outperforming Hillary Clinton in head-to-head matchups against Trump poll after poll.
Umm actually, that didn’t argue counter to anything that I said.
She polled among the general population alongside Bernie Sanders.
If Sanders outperforms Hillary with the general population against their competitor, then they are not “alongside” — Sanders is, in fact, ahead.
Word definitions matter!
at one point
Too bad that point wasn’t during her campaign.
My point being that no matter who we run there will be vicious smear campaigns attacking their character.
Alright but Obama was a man, so
Idk if it’s too early to talk about it, but part of the process is definitely weighing the pros and cons.
This is complete and total gatekeeping (actual sexism) bullshit that is frequently parroted but not actually analyzed with a modicum of depth, for one actually did, they would realize it has no bearing in reality. If anyone wants me to explain why, I will happily do so.
Have you gone outside? Americans (even women) don’t want a woman president. We are stuck in 1890.
Unlike you I imagine, I actually door-kncoked on GOP and Independent households so yes, dare I say I’ve gone outside while in a battleground state no less.
I say again because there has been no evidence provided to the contrary: There is no evidence Harris lost because she was a woman. Put another way, if we placed Biden in her position or if we placed an identical copy of Harris as a male, she too would’ve lost for a multitude of factors beyond the fact she was a woman (again, because no actual sexist fuck was reachable in the first place for Democrats and never are).
Sure, there’s other factors, but even if they were exactly what voters wanted, there would be a stigma around it. I mean, even women hate women and actively vote to sabotage their own Healthcare so it’s not really based on any logic. Maybe in 20 years when the olds are gone, and IF the youngs don’t get brainwashed by Tate types, there could be a female president.
I mean even men hate men at times; this male here would much prefer a female candidate so it slices both ways.
Reality remains: true bigots; trust sexists were only ever voting conservative, regardless if it was Obama, Biden, or a female like Harris or AOC. So that alone is a non-starter.
I say again because there has been no evidence provided to the contrary
Twice americans chose the fascist over the woman. Now Americans won’t have free elections anymore so they will never have a female president unless her last name is Trump maybe. So I guess they got what they wanted.
I voted for the female candidates, they both lost. The gender divide in congress is 7:18, only 28% of elected federal representatives are women. Gen Z voters were divided along gender lines between Trump and Harris. I don’t know how to fix this problem, but ignoring it is not the solution.
This has fundamentally zero bearing on the actual outcome of the Presidential election; moreover there are many less female candidates seeking office in the first place. Yes, sexism exists — that’s not in dispute —but sexist voters were never in reach in the first place, whether it was Harris, Biden, Hillary, or Obama.
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A majority of registered voters are women.
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A majority of actual voters are consistently women.
There is just as much risk of women getting pissed off and protesting and staying home because they are tired for voting male candidates.
There is zero evidence a woman cannot win. You just can’t run inauthentic consultancy-crafted non-charismatic candidates, and BOTH Hillary and Kamala were. Mind you, the same holds true for men. Go ahead and just try to run Tim Kaine and see what happens, I dare you.
This made all the more clear by the fact that the vast vast vast majority of misogynistic sexist bigots are already a firm part of the conservative maga base —And so they were Never. Up. For. Grabs in the first place.
28% of congress is female, 50.5% of the general population and their ratio gets higher in the average age group that corresponds to congress’. The percentage of people enthusiastic about a female president is down since 2015, a third of voters today say they are not ready for a female president.
We’re not talking about convincing a population of unbiased, nonprejudiced people. We’re talking about convincing a nation full of hateful assholes. A lot of republican voters will mobilize solely to keep women out of power.
a third of voters today say they are not ready for a female president.
Now intersect that with actual reachable swing-voters and Democrats.
Like I said: that tracks for core dyed-in-the-wool MAGA trash that we will never win nor want beneath our banner.
Let’s not make Faustian bargains, shall we?
Edit: Also, your facts are just incorrect, as well as interpretation:
a third of voters today say they are not ready for a female president.
- 23% is not 33%.
- 57% say America is “ready” and 20% were “not sure”
- Answering the question whether the rest of America is “ready” is not answering whether you believe a woman could be President.
There is zero evidence a woman cannot win.
I’ve got a relatively small sample size, but considering the alternative I dont think its worth grandstanding on your soapbox for another 4-8 years just to trot out another losing horse.
Instead of being a gatekeeping sexist, I’m going to continue to reiterate (for lack of evidence and also because it’s the right thing) that sex / gender of the candidate does not matter in the slightest, and the only thing that matters are their policies, their authenticity, and their charisma — male, or female.
Also because there hasn’t been a lick of evidence to suggest Harris lost because she’s a woman. Also because, as I pointed out and you conveniently ignored: All actual sexists were never reachable votes for Democrats in the first place.
We don’t need them, and we don’t fucking want them.
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She should run for the senate seat when chuck leaves office after he finally comes to his senses.
Look … not that I have anything against women running for president … but … if we haven’t learned twice from the shitty decision making of the voter population, 2028 is not the year to test if the US can get its first woman as president AGAIN. I’m going to chalk this up as democrats just can’t stand to win and the media needs to stop encouraging that line of thinking. We’ll be lucky if there even is a 2028 election. Also, did everyone forget AOC is not in the good graces of kingmaker Pelosi?
Clinton and Harris both lost because they sucked, not because they were women.
Pelosi looks like she’s one stiff gust of wind from keeling over. Fingers crossed.
This is the realistic take. Racism is bad enough in this country that we just barely squeaked Obama into office as a half-black man. Misogyny is way more widespread. Spend about 5 minutes in an online game chat room and you’ll see what I mean. Not to mention the manosphere/blackpilling are actually growing movements rather than shrinking.
I think AOC is great and that she would make a fine administrator, but let’s keep her in congress for now where she can still do a lot of good for the progressive cause. There’s no need to put someone who the right has spent years building up as the antichrist boogeyman as the frontrunner when we already have a poor track record of prominent female politicians losing the presidential race to the most embarrassingly unqualified candidate in American history.
This is what I was saying to the poster above, that thinks there’d be no problem with a woman running. They clearly haven’t been outside or even in 1 gaming lobby or they’d know how bad it is.
I think running another woman to get absolutely trounced by the populace is a poor choice. I don’t believe the people are ready for it yet, that’s how we ended up with this. Kamala was a good candidate, but with the wrong chromosomes for a very specific swing vote.
If the BIG Bill of Garbage passes, there are no more free elections.
Just passed the Senate by one vote. Back to the House for the finale vote, which is controlled by Republicans.
It’s over fam.
You can kiss this nation goodbye.
Now hunker down for the suffering and death that’s sure to follow.
This is what happens when you give conservatives power. Such a profoundly stupid nation of individuals.
I don’t understand what people aren’t getting here.
The last two female candidates to run for president, who were extraordinarily more qualified than their opponent, were denied in favor of a felon rapist clown.
If that isn’t proof that this nation is not ready for a female president, I don’t know what is.
I voted for both those female candidates. I am not against a female president. But can we exist in reality for a moment and acknowledge that if we run AOC, we’re going to lose, again? Because America isn’t ready for that shit. You will not capture independents with a female candidate. You will not capture disenfranchised Trump supporters with a female candidate. You will not win. A mayoral race is not the same as a presidential race and Mamdani is a man and that’s the country we live in.
Edit: Scroll through this comments section. This is a liberal sub. And even here it’s 50/50 about AOC running for president. She won’t win guys.
Nah, the Republiklan got Trump elected twice by rejecting reality and substituting it with their own. Reality isn’t winning elections anymore (hell, maybe it never was). People who inspire passion are. I would back AOC before another milquetoast Dem any day.
Plus, it wasn’t just “women candidates” who lost. Hillary had decades in politics for the Right Wing Propaganda machine to attack. And Kamala had literally no time to build up support. AOC on the otherhand is honestly quite popular amongst her constituency and progressives nationwide. She is someone people vote for.
I placed my votes for Kamala, Biden, and Hillary, but they were all votes cast because of Trump. It would be so fucking nice to cast a vote for the candidate I want to win again.
No way AOC is getting anywhere near the Presidency unless there is a full scale revolution. Sad, but true.
Because there won’t be another election?
Also because both of our major party machines would cooperate in attacking her.
Neoliberals would rather lose power than signal to their bribers that their party isn’t bought and paid for. President Ocasio-Cortez would be such a signal.
The DNC promotes on the basis of potential federal level reps getting bribe money. AOC was a spoiler and is not welcome in the party because of her views. That’s why the Neoliberals in congress don’t care Trump is in office and even help him with appointments.
Neoliberals like Pelosi would lock arms with the Fascists and treat a President AOC like the threat we wished they’d treat their fascist opposition like, but they have too much in common on the same Economic policy they’re both well bribed to enact and protect from us.
Which is why, all the more, AOC is a good choice. The hatred of our true oppressors on Wall Street is welcome. At worst, it will further demonstrate that the American people aren’t permitted by big corpo to have a real choice in governance, only hypercapitalist robber baron enablers paid to divide us on social wedges as they legislate new ways for the owners to monetize sucking us dry.
God, americans are so naive. There won’t be fair elections anymore. You had your chance and you blew it! It’s over for your democracy.
It’s the Democrats. They still haven’t realized that the game is over. Nobody’s playing by the rules. Why would they start during an election?
It’s the Democrats.
It is Americans as a whole. 1/3 of then didn’t even bother voting.
They get what they have coming to them.
Yup.
Our system is fundamentally broken, but the bottom line is Americans failed. It was entirely possible for us to stop all this and we chose not to. Shit electorates make for shit countries.
We’re going to be circling the drain for the foreseeable future.
So long as the donor checks keep clearing, establishment Dems are happy to play spoiler for big business and let Trump destroy the country.
Until the money is worthless and they realize they’re the frog in the saucepan.
It’s the Democrats.
It’s the people blaming the politicians instead of doing something about it.
But almost no one cares until they get ICe’d. That’s human nature for you.Both are happening.
It’s important to understand what went wrong so when you with on a fix, you won’t make the same mistake.
People can both bitch about politicians and also help fix the problem.
The democrats have handed Trump the country on a plate. As a non American I’ve been saying the American “Empire” will fall eventually, I never thought it would be to a fascist, and with a wimper.
It is looking more and more like the election was stolen.
Edit: You are blaming Americans for screwing up the previous election becuase this next one will not be fair…when the last one you are blaming Americans for was already rigged.
there’s a reason for that.
AOC has already demonstrated her extreme willingness to fall in line for the DNC. She will not bring change.
Neoliberals are still openly hostile towards her.
Queen Neoliberal Pelosi spent more time in the lameduck period undermining AOC’s committee appointment than Trump’s Presidency.
That’s good enough for me as a leftist knowing the context that she really is about as left wing as our pathetic, deluded, propagandized, under or miseducated populace could ever elect as we are.
I don’t have any hope anymore, this nation died under Reagan and it’s just a slow falling corpse as far as I’m concerned, but for anyone looking to cling to at least borderline rational hope, someone in her position is your best bet, because she’s a known name, that matters in our shitty celebrity obsessed culture, she proves every day that a leftist can be professional and govern, that matters because leftists are painted as anarchist boogiemen without a plan in most American news media, and she’s photogenic and naturally charasmatic, which shouldn’t matter but sadly does.
There isn’t an individual to the left of her that I can think of that could conceivably get elected President in this cesspool of willful ignorance and systemically stoked division of the poors, can you? Even her becoming President would be a moonshot. That isn’t a knock on her, she’s one of about 4 members of congress (or executives in the fortune 1000) I’d give a glass of water to if they were dying of thirst, that’s a knock on our gold plated shithole and people, not her. She’s a diamond in the rough.
I disagree. Mamdhani has shown it possible to not compromise on basic human rights.
AOC has crossed the line and there is no going back. The mask cannot be put back on.
There is no harm in allying with her but she should not be the leader of the progressive movement.
She’s a diamond in the rough.
True. But she won’t win a presidential election.
I agree, but I don’t think there’ll be another real election here for a long time if ever, and I’d rather vote for her than another hypercapitalist enslaver with pride ribbons(D) to stop hypercapitalist enslaver with scapegoats® yet again as I’ve done my entire life in our descent to oblivion. There’s not really rational hope either way. The capitalists won and have us by the balls in every way, including tens of millions of deluded minds that have learned to love and defend the Massas and their “free market” directly against their own interests.
Climate change is going to end planetary scale civilization in 50 years max, probably 20-30. It’s blowing past all projections because we were conservative and both couldn’t and didn’t want to consider the runaway effects. I honestly think Kamala was my last pragmatic funeral dirge vote. Give me something to vote for and I’ll show up. I haven’t had a federal level candidate to vote for in a general in my entire life though. I doubt AOC will become the first after the DNC uses every lever to end any primary run.
