and so is ukraine, but no one is really helping them either.
Sorry to be a downer, but the UN General Assembly resolutions and votes are non-binding. The UNGA also voted to condemn the US invasion of Iraq and Russian invasion of Ukraine, and yet the aggressors were not sanctioned or reprimanded.
FINLAND NOOOOO WTF
I have seen that most of the opposition has come together to threaten the governing coalition with a vote of no confidence if they don’t do it soon, and that only about half of the coalition opposes it, so hopefully we will see a change of course soon. Disclaimer thoigh that I am not Finnish and don’t particularly follow Finnish politics, so I might be missing context
I’m very disappointed in Antarctica for their narrow minded views on the world.
Cold as ice.
Paradise
Goddamn penguins!
To be fair, I don’t think the penguins recognize anyone’s sovereignty.
Not even the emperor penguins?
ESPECIALLY the Emperor Penguins.
Nope. Emperor penguins think all land belongs to them.
I wish we could be more like penguins, and recognize no borders
GWAR also makes their home base in Antarctica. They did a live show from there once.
It’s been the biggest supporter of Israel from the beginning. The US support is just a distraction from where the true power comes from
(Edit: Sorry! I had put down my phone between reading what was above and this comment. I though it said “I’ve been the biggest supporter…”)
Their militias who used terrorism and violence to take land, which then formed into the IDF?~~I have to ask, why have you supported them “from the beginning” (whatever that means)? ~~
No worries! I can totally see how it could be easily misread as “I’ve” and that would have made what I said really not good. I just saw people were downvoting me too so I thought it was multiple people thinking I wasn’t joking
antarctica has militias???
Have people…actually thought I was being serious?
Yeah I get that the US won’t recognise Palestine, but what’s Antarctica’s excuse?!
Antarctica isn’t a sovereign country. Perhaps the map should indicate the slices of Antarctica that belong to countries that were included.
I am aware that neither the penguins nor the scientists residing in Antarctica have declared sovereignty… :)
Yet this is the great diplomatic Master stroke of our left of center governments in the West. Meanwhile the final solution continues unabated, abetted by weapons still flowing from those Western countries.
Anything short of sending their Navy and Military to land food on the beach and physically defend handing it out is bullshit at this point.
Yet this is the great diplomatic Master stroke of our left of center governments in the West.
Macron is left of center⁉️ He was central for this “stroke” and if you think that he is “left of center”, your map is upside down.
Anything short of sending their Navy and Military to land food on the beach and physically defend handing it out is bullshit at this point.
if you think of Palestine’s recognition by these nations as “bullshit” at this point… i wonder who i’m writing to. It of course is not enough; but it’s not “bullshit” either, especially if you consider who is the emperor since January.
It’s BS becsuse there may be no palestinians left in few years
Is not meaningful action. Maybe November 2023 it would have been.
France knew the score from the start, I knew it so France must have known it better than I cuz they have better news service than I do.
As to my directional, all of our non-right parties have been seized by conservatives across the West the only reform vote is for the fire right which makes it inevitable they will come into power without some real opposition leadership. Macron is a failure and Leadership throwing France into the arms of the far right that in partnership with the US and Russia will help everyone put a fix in to kill representative government in all but name. I mean that goes without saying I would have thought.
Hes saying words haven’t changed anything.
This has not stopped the killing but lets neolibs feel good about themselves.
Hopefully NATO invades Isreal and takes control of their government while aid is distributed and Palestine is rebuilt, because that’s what stops the killing.
writing about politics on lemmy is liking pissing in the wind. This is my last comment under this map which speaks for itself.
if it was “bullshit” or if it wouldn’t change anything, these nations would have recognized Palestine years ago. The fact that they waited so long shows that it was “something”.
Again, if it wouldn’t change anything, Israel wouldn’t react to it.
I can’t understand this need to minimize. If Israel exists today, it’s because of these nations that are turning a page today. Circumstances have changed but they still are the shadows of nations that carelessly designed what they call “middle east”. This map and it’s latest modifications should be taken into consideration with numerous other maps that’s drawn since 19th century.
defeatism is more tiring than defeat itself.
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Come on NZ, get it together! You’re even on this map and all.
They’ve been talking about it for what feels like months now.
But we’ve got a conservative three headed snake running our government at the moment.
We’re not allowed nice things. Just shit like austerity to pay for retroactive tax cuts for landlords.
Well fuck…
besides doing this, why not cut off the aid to the country, or threaten to israel.
So could someone explain what it means for Palestine to be “recognized as a state” by some proportion or other of the UN? If the UN says something is or isn’t a state, what does that mean for it?
It’s not the UN saying it’s a state. Palestine has been an observer at the UN for a while, I believe
If a country doesn’t recognise another country, they won’t do diplomacy with it, will probably recognise some other country’s claim on that land (which is bad for the country that wants to be recognised, obviously), and basically won’t treat it as an independent nation
If a country doesn’t recognise another country, they won’t do diplomacy with it
This isn’t necessarily true. See, for example, how loads of countries don’t officially recognise Taiwan for the sake of keeping China happy, but do maintain an unusually well-staffed “trade office” in Taipei and accept Taiwanese passports
Isn’t that more like de facto recognisation then? If you’re accepting passports it’s implicitly assumed that you’re treating it as a sovereign nation
Nope. Most UN members have diplomatic relations with Palestine. Even the ones that do not recognize it as a country do. Mostly it is some small countries, which do not, but I fully get that say Samoa does not care that much about Palestine. Wikipedia has a good list of it.
What’s the deal with Czechia and Hungary?
Well Hungary with Orban running the show doesn’t like muslims so that’s maybe not so shocking
Shit man Muslims be getting worldwide hate. Sucks.
Disputed recognitions.
Czechoslovakia recognised Palestine, and both successors said they would carry on international legal stuff from Czechoslovakia. However, the Czech government now says that Czechoslovakia never formally recognised Palestine. I don’t know how meaningful that claim is or what it’s based on. Slovakia independently reaffirmed the recognition shortly after the two split
Hungary’s case is just that communist Hungary recognised Palestine and Orban’s government is mad about it (though apparently not mad enough to formally retract the recognition)
Until this month/year all of Europe didn’t recognize it
Several did it last year, Sweden was 2014, Iceland was 2011, Slovenia and Bosnia were the 90s, and a hefty chunk of Eastern Europe did it in the 80s (and has continued doing so in the post-Soviet era). The two highlighted are because of disputed recognitions
Recognizing it changes nothing this is an empty gesture to appease people angry about the Israelis pursuing a final solution against Gaza, and promising to do the same to the West bank.
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Y no Greenland?
Owned by denmark
Ah, I assumed denmark was also green.
WtF denmark.
Hva faen, Danmark? Skjerpings!
Recognizing a state whose legitimate elected government launched a literal pogrom just a couple of years back. What a thing you’re all celebrating.
What recognizing a state that would be ruled by the palestinian autority has anything to do with hamas. Should i also remind you that israel army was created by terrorist groups like Hagana and lehi etc?
Israel also ethrnically cleansing palestinians twice before 7 of october and is doing a third one. There is aldo regular progrom of palestinians in the west bank
Was it a pogrom when Israel killed hundreds of their own civilians on Oct.7? Or only when the Big Scary Arab does it?
On 5 December 2023, Israeli hostages released by Hamas met with Benjamin Netanyahu’s war cabinet and claimed that, during the 7 October Hamas attack on Israel they were deliberately attacked by Israeli helicopters on their way into Gaza, and were shelled constantly by the Israeli military while they were there.[73]
Read more about use of the “Hannibal Directive” on Oct. 7 here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive#Gaza_war
Historical “pogroms” were by a dominant majority population against an oppressed minority population. So the term “pogrom” is a bad fit for anything that Palestinians do, or have ever done, or might do in the future, to Israeli Jews.
The other way round (settler violence) though? I don’t use the term for that myself, but I don’t think it is a wrong term for it.
Pogrom (a Yiddish word) in the proper sense means against this particular ethnic group - so correct term. But okay, by the generic definition, that’s a fair argument.
Personally I don’t see humanity as dominators and dominated, but rather in terms of individuals. The intentions of Hamas against individual Israelis are very clear from their words and deeds. All that they lack is the means. That’s why I will not be celebrating statehood for a nation run (partly) by this group.
Says they see humanity as individuals
Groups all Gazans as Hamas supporters
Yeah, ok buddy. Great individualizing there. Because individual Palestinians who have never voted for Hamas deserve to get bombed.
Like in your own words you showed you don’t believe Palestinians as part of humanity.
legitimate elected government
That is certainly discussable lmao
The people of Gaza voted for Hamas, an overtly terrorist group with a genocidal manifesto, as their elected government back in
20072006. Naturally that was their last election.During wars there is generally no elections let alone during occupation
And the people of North Korea, China, Russia etc etc vote for their government regularly.
North Korea does not hold elections. China does not hold elections outside its ruling Communist Party. Russia holds occasional sham elections with stooge candidates.
The Palestinian election involved numerous parties and candidates, including leftist and liberals, and the Hamas victory was generally recognized as fair.
Clearly you have very little idea about this whole subject. I’d guess like most others here.
North Korea absolutely holds elections and they can even boast with having 100% voting participation. Their last election was 2019. And so does China…
Anyway, you can’t possible argue that Hamas is the legally elected government in Gaza after abolishing all other political parties and not holding an election for 20 years. Maybe they once was, but they’re no longer and not since a long time.
You obviously have even a less idea about this whole subject.
Given that you’ve clearly just looked these things up to justify yourself post-hoc, you should now know that there’s no comparison with sham plebiscites in totalitarian countries (China holds proper-ish elections, at local level only, and only for vetted Communist Party candidates).
My point stands. The people of Gaza chose Hamas, a genocidal terrorist group, in a free and fair election. That doesn’t justify what’s happening to them today, but it’s a fact.
Given that you’ve clearly just looked these things up
Even if I did, it is true, is it not? It is not that hard to admit when you are faulty. You can do it, I believe in you!
<img src=“https://i.imgflip.com/a703yp.jpg”/>No, your point is wrong and dumb. You proclaim Hamas to be the legally elected government which they maybe was in 2006, but as I said, that was almost 20 years go and after abolishing all political opposition. Now Hamas holds (held lmao) the same grip over Gaza as any other authoritarian regime does. And if you are still going to argue that this makes them the legal elected leaders, than China, Russia, Belarus, North Korea and whatever other state you want also has legally elected leaders and your arguing against their elections makes no sense.
Aside from how plenty of other governments are recognised while committing horrific acts, this is recognition of Palestine, not Gaza. Even before the displacement and deaths of the last two years, most of Palestine’s population was in the West Bank, and it is not run by Hamas. Hamas won the last election, but it did not get a majority and has not been in government for most Palestinians for almost 20 years
plenty of other governments are recognised while committing horrific acts
Citation needed. I can’t think of anything comparable, certainly not since the UN’s founding.
this is recognition of Palestine, not Gaza
Fair point.
I’ll go with a slightly older example so that it has more settled scholarship: Indonesia during the East Timor genocide. I don’t think anyone stopped recognising Indonesia despite it invading and occupying what is now Timor-Leste, killing tens to hundreds of thousands of a population smaller than Gaza’s, and conducting mass-scale sexual violence
stopped recognising
Of course they didn’t. But this is about an initial recognition. This one feels unseemly to me personally.
Not saying it’s wrong in principle. It certainly feels like a “sympathy recognition”, much like Kosovo and indeed Timor Leste itself. But in those cases the putative independent states were not run (even partly) by religious extremists with overtly genocidal intentions.
Still, I will agree that things are not black and white.
Why call it the UN when one nation controls all the others.
It’s like the ancient Roman Empire … a land of equals, but one is more equal than the others.
And just like the ancient Roman empire, it is starting to collapse.
Why call it the UN when one nation controls all the others.
Really it’s the five permanent members of the UN Security Council: the US, UK, France, China and Russia.
And that is only a small part of the UN. The UN is much more than just the security council.
That user was claiming the US controls all of the UN, and I made the point that it’s the security council. Considering they can block literally any resolution, they do sort of control everything the UN does.
Any OG member has veto rights. US isn’t special.
Well if the UN was controlled by one nation there hardly would have been several condemnations by a majority of countries in the General Assembly regarding Israel’s actions in Palestine
I will let you talk but i will not listen to you. Yes this is still control
If you think of it like this, let’s say everyone in the General assembly or Security Council was a veto player, would they all be in control? Polish parliament lol
Completely aside from the op’s statement, in this case, condemnations don’t mean shit unless there is action associated with it.
At worst it’s the political unions version of “thoughts and prayers”, at best it’s genuine dissention that’s being ignored until it’s too fucking late to matter.
Im sure there are political considerations I don’t see as a layperson but nations speaking up and control being in the hands of a single or small minority of nations aren’t mutually exclusive states.
My stance on the issue is obvious but I’m not arguing that stance here, just that your reply is logically shaky.
Sure. Condemn, condemn, condemn, now let’s vote on actually doing something. Entire world says yes, US says no, oh well I guess that’s it we can’t do anything. “Control” might not have been the right word for OP but the outcome is no different. Any country having veto power in the UN is just a broken system.
now let’s vote on actually doing something
Yes, let’s sanctions israel and impose both way arms embargo
I’m possibly misreading the tone of your reply, but my reply is agreeing with your “now do something” stance.
I don’t know enough about how the UN is supposed to work to say if it’s broken or not.
I apologise, I was actually intending to reply to the comment you were replying to.
no worries
The General Assembly can’t take any action. That power is reserved for the Security Council which neither is controlled by a single nation as 14/15 countries vote against the US.
The only thing the condemning states can do is assist the state failing to support it’s population, which in this case is Palestine. If that can’t happen, states should take collective action to protect the populace. They are however hindered by Israel and the Security Council is the only one who can decide for military intervention ¯\(--)_/¯
So no, my reply is not logically shaky. It accurately points out that there isn’t a single state controlling the UN.
It’s time to ignore the security council completely and do what the genocidr convention say
Bet! Sadly you face the issue of breaking against agreed upon international rules by intervening without SC mandate. So break the rules to follow the rules, or follow the rules and let a genocide happen?
There’s big issues with both paths, one for the long term and the other is letting millions of innocents starve to death…
You don’t need a security council to know international rules , to know that there is a genocide in Palestine and that you need to respect them .
You would never use this excuse if the USA vote against any country helping Ukrainians in the security council . Shouldn’t be different for any other conflict
No, but under the UN charter the SC is the only ones who can decide for action that could actually stop the genocide.
You would never use this excuse if the USA vote against any country helping Ukrainians in the security council . Shouldn’t be different for any other conflict
This is an explanation, not an excuse mate. So no, it is not different from any other conflict.
Looking at my reply i can see how it sounded.
I wasn’t actually saying you were incorrect , i was saying the way you presented it was shaky.
The reply you just gave makes sense.
“it can’t be controlled by one nation because some nations are complaining” does not.
Ah alright. I have a tendency to leave bits unsaid because I assume that people can read between the lines, which I understand is difficult both over the internet and when you have no prior experience talking to someone and how they think.
I’ll try to be precise. There’s some theories in international relations that the hegemon controls international organisations, which is heavily debated and I personally find to be a weak theory. The first commenter is using this to frame the UN as toothless and under US control, which it plainly ain’t. So stating that the UN is controlled by a single state is wrong. What is happening is that a veto player is effectively hindering everyone else from acting, but that is not control, it is obstruction.
That sounds reasonable and is significantly more than i previously knew about the subject.
If there are no effective mechanisms for reigning in that obstruction wouldn’t that be a form of control, even if only over a single aspect/issue.
Like if someone is obstructing the only exit door and i have no viable means of rectifying that situation they effective control over my ability to exit and anything that would follow on from that.
